What would YOU do?

I think I'd be tempted to try a week without day sleeps and see what happens.

You say she gets very tired when she hasn't had a nap - when does that happen? Late afternoon?
I'd be inclined to try for 1 short nap when she gets really tired - maybe 30min to tie her over and then see what happens at night. But only if she's keen - otherwise, I'd let her be and let her go to bed earlier in the evening and sleep it off

Isn't there a lady in auckland that helps with sleep routines etc.. I can't remember exact details but remember it in treasures not too long ago - i would say with all the sleep probs that Elle seems to have - this lady might be beneficial. I think you've tried and tried and tried Fiona, and by now i would have given up.. maybe it's time to get some professional help with it to get it over and done with once and for all.... this must be driving you doolally

I think I'd give Andie's thought a go and then reassess. Especially since you are noticing a pattern between day sleeps and bad night sleep.I would defintiely try and make her do a quiet activity at the old day sleep time though just so that you also get a rest. Probably easier said than done though.
Good luck!

Hmmm being a routine Mum and fully believing that it is important for day sleeps right up until they around three.... for growing and cells and all that guff....I would not be giving it up but more letting her know that she is having one and thats all there is to it...sleeps begets sleep.....

She is probably not sleeping terribly soundly on those nights as maybe too tired to get into nice load of REM type sleep????

I would say.. reading off Mothercare stuff......If she wakes between 6:30 and 7:30am...she should be back in bed between 10am and 12:30 (no later and looking at grizzle..tired signs still) for 2 hour nap...then in bed at 6:30 - 7pm.

Oh and Kelpa - I have always believed sleep breeds sleep too...until last week!

She gets up around 8 ATM so her nap time is around 12.30/1.

Last week she slept well at night on the days she slept late in the afternoon. Go figure!

We've always had such a good strong routine which is partly why I'm so confuzzled i.e. dooolally!

I would try dropping the day sleep and putting her to bed earlier/

Well she seems to settle great for a nap and sleep 2 hours one day and then refuse to sleep (despite seeming tired) the next so perhaps we are at the begining stages of cutting it out. It's caught me off guard! Naps used to be sooooooo easy.

We are seeing Dr Bartle at the sleep well clinic tomorrow although I don't know how much help it will be as SimoneF's friend who is a sleep scientist doesn't seem to think it is a sleep disorder.   We are paying the guy $185 so he better have some ideas that work!!

The ladies at Small Wonders (who do routines etc) seem to think the night waking is just a behaviour she has learned and enjoys. If it is, grrr for having such a stubborn child!

Who knows! We all slept through (after some demazin) last night so feel better. Mind you, sleeping through meant a 6.30 start which we haven't had in yonks and now nap refusal.

Perhaps, she has changed and gone from having high sleep needs as a baby to having lower sleep needs now...who knows!