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Bizzy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 May 2008 at 4:42pm
I have been pondering this for some time in regards to toby.   

The kid has very rarely woken up happy, wether it be in the morning or whenever else he has been asleep... he is a grumpy child quite often saying ouch as he is screaming and crying but unable to produce anything sore ... and now he says he doesnt know when you ask what is wrong... quite often we get hysterical screaming fits, where he is inconsolable and hugging never calms him down...

anyhoo so i finally mentioned it to the doc today and he said it could either be an intolerance to something...or just his personality ...

**big sigh** i guess its just going to be my lot in life to deal with grumpy bum toby!



Edited by Bizzy

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BuzzyBee View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuzzyBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2008 at 4:55pm
Could just be his temperament Deb, although I have been following your posts in diff threads regarding Toby. Big ups to you for holding it together & getting this far. I think I would have lost the plot by now

I'm surprised the Dr fobbed you off with 'an intolerance or it's his personality'. Not saying I think it's anything more than that but he/she could have been a bit more helpful on that front and offered tests or a referral? Are you having problem with eating AND sleeping too?

Is he still with Plunket? Maybe its something to bring up with your nurse.

I hope you find some answers or solutions somewhere

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.Mel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2008 at 5:05pm

If it's an intolerance to something, did the doc offer to get some testing done or just leave it at that.  Poor Toby, sounds like whatever it is, is painful. I guess the only thing you can do, is try cutting stuff out and seeing if that makes any difference.  It could be a diet thing???

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emily View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emily Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2008 at 6:09pm
How old is he? Sorry am new here so not aware of the history/details. By all means if you are worried get him checked out. You won't feel better until you have exhuasted all options.
But I have to say, my now 20mth old was a horror. He had colic & suspected silent reflux. But I was convinced that something had to be wrong with him. From birth/24hrs old if he wasn't feeding and sleeping he was screaming. I went to the Dr a number of times, saw the cranial osteo 5 times, saw a paed once and hounded plunket. Basically was told he was colicky and it was his temperament. He did improve a little at 3 months and drastically at 5-6months but I do have to say, I honestly believe now that it was his temperment. If my little darling isn't happy or isn't well, the entire world gets to know about it. And if things don't go his way, there is a major melt down. Nobody (including the ppl in the next town lol) is ever unsure as to what Master R wants or how he is feeling lol. He has such a temper. Lucky for him he is adorable and charming when he is happy but man he is high maintenance. Such a shock as his 3yr old brother is not like him at all! Sorry, that's probably not much help to you!
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LeahandJoel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeahandJoel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2008 at 6:32pm

Bizzy - my nephew was a bit like Toby, and still does not wake the happiest if he sleeps during the day, one of the things my sister has done is get rid of all additives and preservitves in his food and he has changed completely. One main thing if you do this is that if he has the slightest thing with A or P in it he does go off the rails very easily. It maybe something to consider as this seems to be his "intolerences". Probably not that helpful but maybe worth a go. Good luck


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Maya View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2008 at 7:03pm
My brother is much the same lol, even at 22 he *still* never wakes up happy! It's a long standing joke in the family that you don't wake Paul before lunchtime if you want to live!

It might be worth looking into the intolerance angle, IMO I'd say it's unlikely, esp as he was like this when still fully breastfed, but given that he does get a bit of exczema it suggests he could tend towards being a bit atopic (prone to allergies/intolerances).

Other than that, I'm kinda stuck on what to suggest, altho there's probably no harm in having him checked out by a paed just to rule stuff out if it's worrying you?
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Bizzy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bizzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2008 at 7:07pm
emily, sounds like we have similar children... toby is going to be 3 in july.
mel the doc pretty much said that too - just try and eliminate diff food groups.
oh and when i asked the doc if he would benefit from osteo he nearly laughed out loud...

i'm tossing up about doing a food dairy for him and seeing if i can see a pattern... or maybe just working on getting him to sleep better. sleep has never been his strong point! he even has bags under his eyes...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuzzyBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2008 at 7:13pm
[QUOTE=Bizzy]
oh and when i asked the doc if he would benefit from osteo he nearly laughed out loud...
/QUOTE]

Lol why does that NOT surprise me?

Bags under eyes, from 18 Months + this was the main indicator that I had severe food allergies which a paed then referred me onto an immunologist for and was later found that I had anaphylaxis /severe food allergies to several different and main foods.

But then again, if Toby isn't getting much sleep that could also be the reason behind the bags under his eyes. Lucas gets this too and he's far from being a good sleeper.
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emily View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emily Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2008 at 8:06pm
Take him to the osteo if you want to. My doc also did a bit of an eye roll when I mentioned it but I was willing to try anything. Getting him seen by someone re: food allergies could help. Master 20 mths doesn't get eczema yet his 3yr old brother does, so am already a little wary of what I feed him. I do have to say he is better than what he was but I do notice the days when he doesn't get enough sleep he is diabolical. Gets needy, loses the plot over the smallest thing, I'm not allowed out of the room and has to be carried everywhere. Ppl used to make fun of me as I was sooo fussy about not upsetting his sleep routine as I knew what was in store for me if I did. If he isn't getting good sleeps it could be contributing. I feel for you, it's not easy dealing with them sometimes. You should just keep being the great Mum that you are, while still trying all other avenues.
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SMoody View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SMoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2008 at 8:15pm
You know I sat with McKayla from about a year until a year and a half with almost what you just said. She would be really really grumpy. I decided to check her out and see what we can change.

Until I saw that one documentary about what colourants do to kids. As soon as I started watchign out for it in sweets specially it was literally a turn around within a week. Maybe worth a look? I am not super careful or anything but I have found as soon as she eat certain sweets she will go off for about a week. Natural confectionary sweets dont affect her at all. Smarties and mnm's are pure evil in this house.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fattartsrock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2008 at 8:21pm
I never ever wake up happy either. I could wake up ater 23 hours uninteruppted sleep, after dreaming of George clooney, waking next to george clooney and I would still be a grumpy b!tch. Its a constant source of argument here. It sjust me. I'm happy most of the time (although ATM I am a bit meloncholic - rotten pmt) i'm just not a good riser. Suck for you, I know it sucks having a grump in the house, especially a little grump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bizzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2008 at 8:56pm
fats i wonder what you were like as a child?!

i'm glad you said that tho - i suppose as adults we dont wake up screaming and being a kid crying and screaming is a way of saying "i feel crappy".

shirena does the effect of the food colourings last all week? and is there certain ones that you look out for? i know that the red one (cant remember the number tho) is supposed to be really bad.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bizzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2008 at 9:01pm
ooops didnt see your post there emma - dont ask how i missed it, i must be going blonde!

i dont know if i am "worried" as such but i have wondered if maybe there was something i could do for him. of course when he was younger i did worry that he had something really wrong with him... but then i did it with gabriel and eden too!   

and then of course i have wondered if it is just bad parenting and i know that he is worse if i react badly. maybe i just want to blame something/one?!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fattartsrock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2008 at 9:35pm
Originally posted by Bizzy Bizzy wrote:

fats i wonder what you were like as a child?!

i'm glad you said that tho - i suppose as adults we dont wake up screaming and being a kid crying and screaming is a way of saying "i feel crappy".

shirena does the effect of the food colourings last all week? and is there certain ones that you look out for? i know that the red one (cant remember the number tho) is supposed to be really bad.


Apparently I was perfect, lol and happy and good. But then, my mother does wear rose coloured glasses!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeahandJoel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2008 at 10:08am

This is the website we looked at for my nephew.

http://nac.allergyforum.com/additives/

All the E numbers on the left are what you find on packets of food and you will be surprised at how many some things have in them. I think one of the sections is colourings but not sure now which one it is.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SMoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2008 at 5:55pm
I did find that it lasted for a week and sometimes even longer. In the beginning before I knew we just bought sweets. Didnt matter to me what. I mean as a child we grew up getting treats now and then. Not an everyday thing and never ever thought that the stuff will be bad for her. I thought her behaviour is normal 2 year old tantrum throwing behaviour that is just happening early in her (she was early with bloody everything)

But then I realised no matter what I do with the tantrum she will jsut hit, bite scream more ect no matter what we do. Whether we hug her back, sent her to her room ect.

But after that documentary we decided to test this out for a month. But I saw results after about 2 weeks. She was a lot easier to calm down ect. We didnt do any sweets and any stuff. What my grandmother wouldnt recognise I just didnt prepare. Wasnt that hard for a month. And then we started checkign some stuff out. You cant get away from it however and you cant let it run your life but I make it a rule in sweets to try and keep to the more natural stuff.

I did find with smarties and mnm's that there is just so many colours that it just gets really bad. She gets aggresive within half an hour of eating that stuff. MIL didnt believe me and I sat with a child straight out of hell for a week.

Worth a try perhaps?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FionaS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2008 at 8:00pm
No advice, just sympathy (not quite the right word perhaps).

I understand the cynicism re: osteos. Ours is a chiroptractor and Elle has been totally different since seeing him. That does not mean she is perfect, or always happy, but that masses of her tension and grizzliness as lifted. She is still subjected to the normals ups and downs toddlers go through and hence I know some people say "oh the osteo didn't work" but it really really did. It worked wonders for several of my friends kids too BUT it doesn't work for every problem. I an skeptical too but all I can go by is the evidence we see every day in our home.

I'm not yet sure whether these kids just have difficult temperaments or whether it is something more. All I can say is that we've gone down every single avenue with Elle and the chiro was the only thing that made an ounce of difference. She is still very stroppy, prone to tantrums, strong willed and often grumpy so perhaps that is temperament. I'm not prepared to pin it down to any one thing as I don't what to end up with a self-fulfilling prophecy thing going on.

One theory I have is that we all fall on a spectrum with regard to our senses. At one end you have autistic, at the other adhd and in between you have the rest of us. We are all affected by things differently. I think that for some of us, the world just bugs us more than it does others. Maybe some of us have over-ative central nervous systems so are more irritated by things than others. That accounts for the huge range of "normal". Just my theory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FionaS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2008 at 8:01pm
Oh and one more thing...

I found Elle was dreadful the week we had some iced animals in the house.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SMoody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2008 at 8:22am
Other thing that I just thought about I know someone that does neurolink. Perhaps try that and get an assessment. They should be able to work out what is going on in his whole system and lets his brain take care of it. Might be something totally unrelated that is causing him to be grumpy or they like everyone say maybe it is jsut his temperament. Pm me if you want details.


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