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LivMcD 
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 Topic: Breastfeeding
Posted: 23 September 2011 at 3:14pm |
Hey there, Im a bit nervous about bringing up a controversial subject but here goes (and please no judgement) -
With DD, I breastfed for four months. I exclusivly breastfed for 2 weeks, until I found out she was losing weight rapidly (basically she was starving), so my MW suggested topping up with formula, which worked wonders, she became a happy baby, slept well and more. So my regime from 2 weeks to 4 months was I would breast feed her for 10 minutes each side, feed her a top up of formula and then I would pump both sides for 10 minutes each side (to help increase my milk supply) - this whole process took about an hour to an hour and a half each feed even the 3 feeds at night. I was stressed, wasnt sleeping, hardly eating, hardly going out because god forbid if I needed to feed her while I was out lol. At 4 months old DD decided she didnt want my boobs anymore, so I moved her onto just formula. After this happened she became even more happy she slept 12 hours over night, I was happy, I started to become me again. I got so much s**t from plunket, other mums etc. about "giving up too soon".
Basically, this is probably just a rant but Im 10 weeks pregnant and this time I have decided that Im going to give breastfeeding two weeks, and if its not working for me or if baby is not happening, Im going to give bubs the next best option - formula, which as you can imagine has come with even more criticsm. My question is - has anyone else had a easier/better time the second time around? I do not want to run myself into the ground like last time just because people gave me the guilts.
Thanks everyone 
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CrazyCass
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Posted: 23 September 2011 at 3:41pm |
I think my sister b/fed her second bubs for about 7months, before switching to formula so she wasn't continually 'tied' to her bubs.
With her first she B/fed for 5months if you were lucky, when same as you bubs started loosing weight and wasn't thriving as well.
My sister actually asked me the other day what my aim for b'feeding was - second time round hers had been 2 weeks, anything after that was a bonus. I'll try for as long as I can, but know I wont be doing any 'harm' switching should I need to.
Well done for sticking with B'feeding as long as you did first time round, and wanting to give it another shot this time! 
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didi99
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Posted: 23 September 2011 at 3:58pm |
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Sorry not a personal experiance from me but a good one I think so worth telling.
My best friend was the same as you and had so much trouble with her first. With her second things just worked right from the begining and she really enjoyed breastfeeding. We had a conversation about it when her second was a few months old and she thought maybe it was partly as she wasn't as stressed about it 2nd time round (I think she went in with the if it work it works if not it's not a big deal attitude) plus baby 2 just seemed to latch better and her supply was better.
So yes there are people out there that have a much better round 2, best of luck for your second go.
Edited by didi99
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LivMcD
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Posted: 23 September 2011 at 4:20pm |
Thanks CrazyCass, to be honest Im only giving it two weeks because I cant be bothered with the sh*t Ill get from the nurses at the hospital if I take in a can of formula lol I hated breast feeding, I still bonded awesomly with DD when she was on the bottle and we have such a great relationship now. But as didi99 said next time around could be better.
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Babe
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Posted: 23 September 2011 at 4:40pm |
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Hey chick I BF'd for 6 weeks with DS1 but he couldn't latch properly so had to use nipple shields and he was lactose intolerant so I had to change my diet, he had severe GERD, TBH it was just difficult. Second time round I figured same as you if it wasnt working it wasn't happening but DS2 latched on within minutes of being born and he fed like a trooper, in fact he refused bottle or dummies for months lol next time round I'd definitely give it another go because like birth, every BFing experience is different, but I certainly wouldn't feel too stressed about it.
HTH and GL!!!
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Bobchannz
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Posted: 23 September 2011 at 8:27pm |
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First time it was tricky, but nutted through and fed to nine months when she went cold turkey! It took nearly a month to get latching right with her. This time round I was 1000 times more relaxed and had a very good midwife. DD2 latched for the first time within 24hrs and is still BF at 14 months. Different babies give different experiences!!
I think two weeks is quite a short time for both you and the baby to get the hang of feeding - (although if the baby is loosing weight obviously you need to do something about it) but for positioning and latching I think it can take around a month to sort out.
In the beginning with my first daughter I found it faster to express then feed her the EBM from a bottle! But after a few weeks the feeds start gettting shorter and shorter as the baby gets stronger. It means that you don't feel as tied to the couch!
Good luck. I think it worth mentioning your difficulty the first time round to your midwife so she can work out what services to offer you. I hope it all goes well for you, whatever you end up doing!
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newme
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Posted: 23 September 2011 at 9:20pm |
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I would really recommend you go to a La Leche League meeting, or at least phone them, during your pregnancy. They will be able to provide information and support, in a non-judgmental way, and help get you off to the best start with breastfeeding.
Breastfeeding is different with each child, so you may well find it easier this time around.
Good luck.
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Raspberryjam
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Posted: 23 September 2011 at 10:37pm |
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Liv McD - my situation was a bit different but I am still feeding my 14 month old chubba today! Its one of my greatest mum achievements ever - so I say find out as much as you can, but I will share and hope it gives you some hope
Totally hear you on the pumping drama- argh!!
My first born was born with a congenital heart defect - and only 2.72kg - because of her condition she would get breathless and exhausted from feeding - she had an Nasogastric tube, so I would feed her til she crashed out, them pump and top her up. She had to have an exact amount of fluid at every feed so not to overload her heart and so had to be fed 2 hourly for the first 4 weeks!! sometimes though stress and share exhaustion I didnt even have enough after pumping to top her up - so she got a bit of formula too
I desperately wanted to feed her - this was the only thing I could do for my baby. We were both in the hospital for 8 weeks - the lactation consultant visited every single blimin day!! honestly - they just about shove their boobs in your mouth!
(dont get me wrong - I wouldnt be where I am today without the lovely weegee or the B/F class I attended but some are just breast nazis)
So I struggled with this for 14 weeks, then one morning I picked my tiny baby up , held her to the breast and she arched her back and grabbed the bottle I had waiting to top her up - end of story - formula fed she was
I love breastfeeding, Im a fierce advocate TBH, but there is soo much satisfaction in giving your baby and lovely full tummy and the nutrition they need -just sometimes its not mummas milk. My mummy guilt was very short lived when I realised I was still doing the best I could for my bub
This time I attended a breastfeeding class at birthcare - guessing you have an equivalent in CHC, LLL, or your midwife could give you a contact - It was really interesting. Confirmed what I already knew, and gave me a few pointers that I probably ignored or forgot first time round
I had a section so my milk was slow to come in , so I used natropharm spray - it is awesome!!
Also since then I have learned that you can begin expressing colostrum from 37(?) weeks to get your milk going before birth so I will do that next time
The best support are your fellow mummas - and the good old mantra - keep calm and carry on - the first 6 weeks may well suck (excuse the pun) mine did as my bubba was a wee piglet
but it was soo worth it... good luck I hope it works for you - do the best you can x
Edited by Raspberryjam
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LivMcD
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Posted: 24 September 2011 at 7:32am |
Just to clear something up, DD had an awesome latch, my lactation consultant thought so anyway, as well as positioning was fine - I just had no milk. Someone mentioned the La Leche group, been there done that. I tried alsorts of remedys to get more millk, expressing to build up milk supply, Fenugreek tablets, Metoclomprimde tablets, different diets etc etc. So basically as my lactation consultant said bubs and I had it all down pat we were awesome breatsfeeders (lol) but I had no milk. Even though DD did not have alot of breastmilk, she is one healthy baby, she has only had one minor cold her entire life (14months) and no other sickness, we have an awesome bond and she has an even better bond with her dad because he was able to feed her as well. So my question is - is putting your own health at risk (stress related) worth giving your bubs breastmilk if Ive proved formula can be just as good? My goal for the future is to make formula a NON taboo subject and stop making mums feel guilty about using it.
Thanks for all your answers and comments 
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Raspberryjam
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Posted: 24 September 2011 at 8:01am |
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sorry i thought from your original post that your question was has anybody successfully breastfed second time round. Not to that you wanted to justify using formula, you dont have to justify your choices for your baby to anyone
It has been proven that breastmilk is best for baby, but if its to the detriment of the mother then formula clearly works just fine in regards to nurtition and growth
I had no success with fenugreek, metocloperamide etc etc,but natropharm still worked well for me, and I in my opinion if your really want to breastfeed, you need to try for a good 4 to 6 weeks. In most cases thats how long it takes to establish breastfeeding, and its hard work, even stressful, but no one said it was easy, so
you either commit to it or you dont, Im sure all your baby expects of you is the best you can do and a full belly
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newme
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Posted: 24 September 2011 at 9:07am |
 LivMcD wrote:
So my question is - is putting your own health at risk (stress related) worth giving your bubs breastmilk if Ive proved formula can be just as good? My goal for the future is to make formula a NON taboo subject and stop making mums feel guilty about using it.
Thanks for all your answers and comments |
You have proven formula can be just as good??? No. It is not. You have not proven that. Study after study after study have proven that breastmilk is best. It is the normal way to feed an baby, and breastmilk is the perfect food for a babys body. They are always finding out more and more benefits to breatfeeding and breastmilk. Breastmilk is vastly superior to formula. I agree that in some cases breasfeeding doesn't work, and in these cases formula has its place, for sure. But no, it isn't just as good.
It sounds like you have pretty much decided you want to formula feed, so if you want to make it non-taboo, then why don't you just go ahead and do it, and be proud of your decision?
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Cinderella
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Posted: 24 September 2011 at 9:30am |
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I had a simular experience to you. My son wa a happy healthy baby and things went well for the first 6 weeks and then my milk started to dry up. There were 2 things that I discovered years later that posibly contributed to this. One I wasn't drinking enough fluid each day and 2 I had back problems.
So from 6 weeks when he was screaming from hunger the doctor recomended formular and he never looked back. He is now 15 and is the healthyist person in the family. He has been sick maybe 3 days in his life. He rides a 14 km round trip to school each day even in winter and is so fit and strong it surprises most people. So formular certainly didn't hold him back.
With my second son I went to a chiropractor through most or my pregnancy and she made sure the issue with my back was resolved before I gave birth. I breast fed him till 9 months and by then he wanted more solid food than milk so used formular for a little while to suppliment his food. He has asthma and has had arthritis since 15 months. Untill 6 months ago he was on really heavy drugs to control inflamation through most of his body which then gave him a lower immunity and skin problems. he is finally out growing it with puberty and is now alot healthier.
With this baby I will breast feed but I have to believe that in some cases formular has its place. Is my first son healthier because of it? I don't know. Everyone needs to decided what is right for them and NO ONE else has the right to judge a person just because they don't agree with their decision.
Good luck this time around LivMcD. I hope if you do breast feed it is a nicer experience for you.
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LivMcD
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Posted: 24 September 2011 at 11:07am |
Thank you Cinderella, that was a really helpful answer and it makes me feel like I may be able to do it 2nd time around.
The reason I am justifying formula is because sometime it is the only optin for some mothers, and they are made to feel guilty and a bad mum by Plunket, other mums etc. because they cannot breast fed. When I say formula is just as good - what I mean is my DD is a healthy happy baby, and is going so well for her age, and from what I gather this would have happened whether she had breastmilk or formula. I am proud of my descion and I am only giving it so little time because I am not running myself into the ground like last time. I will give it a good go this time because breat is best blah blah blah
Thank you to all who gave me non-biased answers, and actually helped me and didnt make me feel bad about my descion. No need to reply again 
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Hopes
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Posted: 24 September 2011 at 12:09pm |
You sound kind of defensive about your decision. You don't need to be. You're the only person who can make it, because you're the only person who's living your life and has been in your position.
All other things being equal, breastfeeding is best. All other things rarely are
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Harley
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Posted: 24 September 2011 at 1:49pm |
Liv - I think we must have been going through similar things at the same time with our girls! I really struggled with BF and DD's weight had dropped more than 10% by the time we got home from Birthcare. I feel like I missed out on bonding with her in the early days because it was just feed, express, sleep, feed, express, sleep. And the feeding was even more painful than labour sometimes! But it came right after a month. However her weight gain was never very good and by 6 months she had dropped to the 5th percentile for her age, and by 7 months I was still feeding her every 3 hours up until her dream feed, and she was sleeping 5 times a day! It frustrates me that no one told me it could be my milk supply, and when I did wean her onto formula I did so within 2 days, with not a single drop of milk leaking from me when I switched breastfeeding to bottle, which tells me my milk supply must have been really low. I feel a bit guilty about that now, that I didn't change things sooner, so my lesson I've learnt from it all (which I think someone else has said too) is that next time round I'll be more confident in making decisions, and realizing I have options. And I'll be a supportive April mummy no matter what the outcome is 
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LivMcD
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Posted: 24 September 2011 at 2:02pm |
Thanks Harley that really means alot! I think if you can breastfed that is awesome, I just hope that other ladies out there understand there are other options and they are not bad mums if they cant breastfed.
Luckly I had an awesome MW who really supported my descion
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Plushie
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Posted: 25 September 2011 at 11:37am |
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I'm not being harsh or judgy when i write this - but it took me over 3 months before i could breastfeed my boy successfully. I had no supply issues but he was a 'bad' latcher and had a tounge tie that remained uncut until he was 2 months old. We feed with no problems today though. If you want to breastfeed, my advice would be to give it longer then 2 weeks, book in to see a lactation consultant and consider a group like LLL for support. Things are different with a second baby, and you might not have the same problems again :)
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Bky
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Posted: 25 September 2011 at 12:42pm |
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I had a lot of the same issues you describe, but my MW's and everyone I went to did some kind of awful combination of telling me I wasn't trying hard enough or brushed me off. It kind of had the opposite effect of making me so flipping mad I carried on out of pure stubbornness and found my own way (needed to top up until 7 months, used an at breast supplementer). So I totally get you wanting to set limits. I think it's a good idea personally, though I'd agree with some of the previous posters in maybe giving it a bit longer. I've probably gone the other route and armed myself with lots of information (I suspect a tongue tie in our case, though it could have been low supply as I have markers for that). I've also set limits as well, if I need to exclusively express in the future I'm just not going to. I'll stop right there because I know it doesn't work well for me and it's not fair to DD.
On that note, I was not impressed with Plunket on this topic. I was possibly bullied into topping up by my midwives, but I got quite the telling off for doing so from my Plunket nurse when she showed up at 5 weeks. But then she had no idea where I could get help, and when we got back to exclusive BF (at 7.5 months) and I mentioned it (being a bit proud of myself) at the 8 month appointment I was told that BF wasn't beneficial any more so I might as well stop.
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T_Rex
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Posted: 25 September 2011 at 1:07pm |
The only thing I'd add is your comment about being totally stressed out and hardly eating is probably a major contributor to why you had a low supply. My dairy farmer friends have kindly reminded me I should be eating like a lactating cow whilst BF - and they are quite right! Eating and drinking well makes a big difference. As does stress, although that's a harder one to combat, but hopefully having some limits around how long you *have* to try for might ease that a bit.
I hope you find it easier this time around
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InthemiddleMummy
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Posted: 25 September 2011 at 1:23pm |
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Every baby and every mum is different.
Here is my friends and my story.
If you dont want to b.f that is your choice, its not your MW or your plunket lady or your mums, its your choice. My friend didnt really enjoy BF at all, had a lot of sore nipples and felt all the pressures the first time around. 2nd baby her and her husband made the decision to feed for max of 2weeks to ensure bubs got colustrum then changed to FF. It worked well for her, cos she got the decision in her head whilst pregnant she was confident with her decision.
With me I was bit more see what happens, I had no great plan, I took each day as it went. I BF using nipple shields for 8months then further 5months un-assisted with DD1, DD2 was 3months N/S then further 6months without.
I was a bit different and only BF off one side per feed. theory is then they get all the fore milk and hind milk, rather than just getting fore milk from both sides. It worked for us so I stuck with that.
I choose routine feeding over demand feeding (which is another controversy in itself) so I feed 3hourly during the day until bubs was on solids and it worked really well bubs thrived.
I knew I could go to shops for 2hours without having to stop and get my boobs out randomly. I knew babys digestive system was regulated to "know" when the milk was coming and she gained well and slept well. DD2 slept really well early thru the night 12wks she did 7pm to 7am, DD1 was 5months but I mostly demand feed as didnt know you could routine BF.
With bubs no3 due any day I will again see what happens, my preference is too routine BF as I see the benefits were fantastic with DD2, but Just cos BF was "easy" for first 2 bubbys doesnt mean it will be this time, so Im not worried if it doesnt work this time there is supermarket around the corner fully stocked with FF if we need it, we will do that, I wont feel less of a mother in anyway.
You just gotta go with the flow and do what works for you and your baby, dont worry about the "jones" so to speak!
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Breastfeeding
