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Andie 
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 Topic: discipline/guidance help, please!
Posted: 13 January 2008 at 7:43pm |
OK so yes, it's been a kinda rough day - Ella is grizzly (the Doc saw fluid behind one ear on Thursday, so that could have turned for the worse... plus there's that stubborn molar), but days like this at least show me that hubby and I need some education on strong-willed toddlers. Ella's 15 months now, and while she's delightful and loving and cute as a bug's ear, she's also stroppy, stubborn, got a good arm for throwing & the occasional whack, and is apparently willing to starve herself if need be. And yes, we've had 'food issues' in this house for, well, for the last 15 months. Thank-you to everyone who gave advice from their own experiences last time I asked about mealtime battlegrounds - I soooo appreciated it.
And now it's time again to ask for advice on  toddlers - specifically the stroppy breed of toddler - the kind that doesn't even turn to face you when you call them (and uh, yeah, we're still waiting on the hospital for her hearing test). I feel that Ella's dad and I need some education on how to discipline her - something that we can both access. I have a couple of ideas up my sleeve but I'm the reader in this family, so books only go half the distance to getting the job done. We'd love to hear what worked (or didn't) for you guys. Thanks!
PS: (sorry it's a novel)... the next plan of attack is 'time out', putting Ella in her cot for this, because there isn't another room or area in the house that she doesn't just have lots of fun in. We'll use the cot (toy-less) for a 'naughty spot', but then let her have her cuddly toys in it when it's sleepy time. That, and getting down to her level & saying "no, we don't (insert offense here)"... and that's pretty much all we're going on for now.
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Andie
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Bubbaloo
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Posted: 13 January 2008 at 8:44pm |
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It sounds to me like your on the right track that is pretty much the same as what were doing with James the other thing we do is when he's doing something wrong we tell that we don't do that move him away and ignore for a minute or so that seems to work.
I think the main thing is to be consistent when there at this age because I think they still don't quite grasp the idea of right or wrong yet and a pushing their own boundaries to see what they can and can't do and ours as well.
I hope this kind of helps Andie.
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 Was danni-chick Mum to James My Angel 28/07/08
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mum2paris
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Posted: 13 January 2008 at 9:14pm |
Was gonna say yep you sound about right. just remember to reinforce the good behaviour, praise when she's doing something good "wow Ella, it was great to see you playing with .. with out hitting" or "mummy really liked how you listened when i asked you to do..." so she knows exactly what it is you want her to do. Same with the "we don't... here" IE: "No Ella, we don't hit here, we use our gentle hands please, do you remember how to use your gentle hands?" etc, demonstrate and when you see her do it reinforce it. It's soooo easy to get into telling them what not to do that sometimes we forget to tell them what we actually DO want them to do instead of that.
Time out works well for big things but for 15mth olds that aren't listening or just hitting etc, you'll probably find they might spend half their life there. lol. Reinforcing and talking to them and distraction works a treat. teaching them that behaviour isn't ok but how about we do this instead.
With the not listening thing i try to make it a rule to only call them 2 times at most ( in case they genuinely haven't heard you), after that, go to them, turn them to face you and ask them to look at you please - then say what you want to say. some people think it's giving in to the kids by you going to them - i firmly beleive that by calling and calling and calling and them deliberately ignoring you it's going along with the kid's little game by them getting you to repeat yourself a million times without them answering you - that in my mind gives them more power. They aren't evil little beings or anything lol like it might sound like i've made out - they just cotton on very quick to things that work or things they can do that irk you - you know that saying "give them an inch.."
Stick with your routines when they go through silly little annoying stages. It reminds them that those boundaries there - those ones that they're trying to push, ha ha well they're rock solid matey, so they can try all they like but that's the way it's gonna be. They soon give up and go testing some other thing out instead. 
It sounds all good so far Andie. Hang in there.  
Edited by mum2paris
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Kels
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Posted: 13 January 2008 at 9:24pm |
You def sound like you have a great plan in place and its just one of those things that consistence is always your best allie (sp?) Distraction is a fantastic technique for her age too
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nikkitheknitter
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Posted: 13 January 2008 at 9:44pm |
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Just wanted to say that 'time out' doesn't really have to be a place that she can't have fun. I've always just put Hannah in a corner in whatever room we are in. Usually she sits there playing and I've just learnt to accept that it isn't the punishment as such that I am after but the removal from the situation. (repeating myself again - sorry to those who have heard me rant a million times!)
Anyway, if the cot works for you then great... just wanted to let you know that there are other options.
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nikkitheknitter
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Posted: 13 January 2008 at 9:45pm |
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P.S. Good luck... if you figure out a way to tame stubborn red-heads then let me know!
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mum2paris
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Posted: 13 January 2008 at 9:57pm |
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yep Nikki that's what we do - we tend to do the "ok, just hop away from here", send them to their rooms, not necessarily to sit and be bored but to find something that's going to take them outta the situation - teaches them to also learn that self-control - that if something is making them angry or some other kid (namely younger/older annoying sister in our house) is making them angry that they can remove themself from that situation... self-discipline and self-distraction ..
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kezplanet
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Posted: 13 January 2008 at 11:57pm |
agree with nikki about re leaving offending child in same/close room just to give them time to calm down and realise that they have to work in with others to be a part of what is going on, focusing attention or offended child. I had this posted to me on facebook, meant for adults more than children but there are things that I will be trying to implement with my girls
When she walks away from you mad [ Follow her ] When she stare's at your mouth [ Kiss her ] When she pushes you or hit's you [ Grab her and dont let go ] When she start's cussing at you [ Kiss her and tell her you love her ] When she's quiet [ Ask her whats wrong ] When she ignore's you [ Give her your attention ] When she pull's away [ Pull her back ] When you see her at her worst [ Tell her she's beautiful ] When you see her start crying [Just hold her and dont say a word ] When you see her walking [ Sneak up and hug her waist from behind ] When she's scared [ Protect her ] When she lay's her head on your shoulder [ Tilt her head up and kiss her ] When she steal's your favorite hat [ Let her keep it and sleep with it for a night] When she tease's you [ Tease her back and make her laugh ] When she doesnt answer for a long time [ reassure her that everything is okay ] When she look's at you with doubt [ Back yourself up ] When she say's that she like's you [ she really does more than you could understand ] When she grab's at your hands [ Hold her's and play with her fingers ] When she bump's into you [ bump into her back and make her laugh ] When she tell's you a secret [ keep it safe and untold ] When she looks at you in your eyes [ dont look away until she does ] When she misses you [ she's hurting inside ] When you break her heart [ the pain never really goes away ] When she says its over [ she still wants you to be hers ] When she repost this bulletin [ she wants you to read it ] - Stay on the phone with her even if shes not saying anything. - When she's mad hug her tight and don't let go - When she says she's ok dont believe it, talk with her - because 10 yrs later she'll remember you - Call her at 12:00am on her birthday to tell her you love her - Call her before you sleep and after you wake up - Treat her like she's all that matters to you. - Tease her and let her tease you back. - Stay up all night with her when she's sick. - Watch her favorite movie with her or her favorite show even if you think its stupid. - Give her the world. - Let her wear your clothes. - When she's bored and sad, hang out with her. - Let her know she's important. - Kiss her in the pouring rain. - When she runs up at you crying, the first thing you say is; "Who's ass am I kicking babe?"
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Paws
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Posted: 14 January 2008 at 5:06am |
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I have to say that time out does work very well very well for our 15 month old...if just gives her time to cool off not to mention us!
We did find though we had to stop using the cot as the naughty spot because she started hating being put to bed!!! She must have been associating it with being naughty.
We now have a naughty chair and again it has been working really well. We even even used the naughty spot technique when out on a walk yesterday when she started having tantrums...again only took 2 times for her to calm down and start behaving again. I think how well it works at this age depends on the child.
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Kels
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Posted: 14 January 2008 at 8:35am |
 Paws wrote:
We did find though we had to stop using the cot as the naughty spot because she started hating being put to bed!!! She must have been associating it with being naughty.
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I did wonder that too.
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Busy mum to Miss 15yrs, Miss 10yrs and Master 4yrs
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kezplanet
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Posted: 14 January 2008 at 10:42am |
Hope you are having a better day today Andie
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Kerryn, Mum to
Ashlyn(29/3/04), Anastasia(1/11/05) & Abigail (24/02/09)
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Andie
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Posted: 14 January 2008 at 8:14pm |
... he he... thanks. Ella did have a much better day today - for my friend who looks after her on Mondays!! Ah well - we will get there. Thanks for the advice so far, I appreciate it. Wee Ella was a box of fluffies all day (so I'd assumed not grizzly with a sore ear after all) but fell asleep in her highchair before dinner tonight, so I'd say maybe she did have a good reason for being such a little terror all weekend. Still, we need to sort out our discipline and what we agree on, so it's good that we're learning about it not a moment too soon.
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Andie
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Two Blondinis
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Posted: 14 January 2008 at 9:31pm |
Andie we are in the exact same situation!
Lil Miss "butter wouldn't melt" Caitlin has been throwing almightly tantrums and has even started to hit out. She's mostly hit me, but at the weekend she hit a play buddy (same age) that is definitely NOT OK!
We are dead against smacking in our house and put a lot of effort into staying on that track when she drives us beyond nuts, so it breaks my heart that she has started to smack others and me 
To make the smacking even worse she looks at me afterwards, waiting for a reaction. We (me, DH and my Mum) have always turned her to us and said very sternly "don't hit, it's not nice! Be gentle" but she just doesn't get it at all. She knows that gentle means as we say the same to her when she plays with the dog. We've even contemplated smacking her hand to show her it's not nice but we REALLY don't want to do that!!!!!
Time out hasn't worked it just created a how new reason for a tantrum/hysterical meltdown and the naughty spot drove me to despair after almost 30 minutes of chasing her down the hall to put her back on the spot, she just runs off like it's a game. A whole new reason for me to get mad at her 
Also, but this isn't too much of a problem as it is to be expected with an only child. But what do other toddlers do when other kids come over and play with their toys? Caitlin gets very possessive and no matter what she has at the time she ALWAYS runs over to the other child yelling "NO NO NO!!!" and grabs said toy. She even does it at other peoples houses with other kids toys!
95% of the time, Caitlin is awesome but it's that 5% thats been popping up and is getting more and more frequent that is starting to drive us nuts!
Suggestions please!!!!!!!!!!
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lizzle
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Posted: 14 January 2008 at 9:46pm |
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jake and Taine aren't only childnre but they don't like sharing, only now is Jake starting to be okay with it. At the moment everything is "theirs" - doesnt matter if you are in a shop, your house or someone elses. So at the moment I "try" and think that I'm teaching taine (as I said, Jake is stopping now) that not everything is his and he must share. In our house we have the rule that until they drop it, it is theirs. In others they have an egg timer rule which we do implement with shared sort-after toys. But also the kids do have possessions that we don't force them to share. JAke's buzz lightyear and taine's trains. Funnily enough I'm finding Taine is much more possessive than jake ever was.
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11111
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Posted: 14 January 2008 at 10:00pm |
Andie wrote:
OK so yes, it's been a kinda rough day - Ella is grizzly (the Doc saw fluid behind one ear on Thursday, so that could have turned for the worse... plus there's that stubborn molar), but days like this at least show me that hubby and I need some education on strong-willed toddlers. Ella's 15 months now, and while she's delightful and loving and cute as a bug's ear, she's also stroppy, stubborn, got a good arm for throwing & the occasional whack, and is apparently willing to starve herself if need be. |
Well Andie I have no advice but intrested in what other's say cause your post jsut described my Mikey down to a t oh except obviouslly he is a boy.
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nikkitheknitter
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Posted: 16 January 2008 at 10:08pm |
Toni - all I have to say is that they are ALL like that... even the nicest kids get a bit possessive at times. Do what you can but just remember it is a stage. And if you are spending time with the right people, they won't judge either.  (I just remember feeling guilty that my child was a horrible selfish toad!)
And soon enough her friends will be hitting her too... so never fear, she'll figure it out that hitting hurts!
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kezplanet
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Posted: 17 January 2008 at 11:42pm |
My girls are normal and hate sharing their toys with each other (not so bad with others) but we are just getting the hang of it .... when they both want something I have been introducing 5mins each and it is sort of working, when I tell them that their 5mins is up the head drops down and they pass is over to the other one but it is a lot of time and effort that you have to put into them.
They are better at sharing food, they now almost always ask others if they would like some of what they have even without being prompted which of course makes me very proud so it does eventually sink into them what we are teaching.
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Two Blondinis
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Posted: 18 January 2008 at 8:42am |
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We had our Linmark visit yesterday and I asked her about dealing with Caitlin when she hit out (She's been a Nanny for 10 years). She said that when she hits ANYONE (me included) tell her "we do not hit, we use gentle hands" then just pick her up and put her away from the situation. She'll soon get the message apparently.
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nikkitheknitter
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Posted: 18 January 2008 at 2:36pm |
Yep, sounds about the standard approach. Works well... just be consistent.
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mamawendz
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Posted: 18 January 2008 at 4:35pm |
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I have just dealt with a situation similar to this (hitting etc)
Our toddler, Layla-Mei, started hitting & biting her 6 year old sister and hitting me and occasionally her cousins
We used the 'get down to her level and tell her no hitting, be gentle' and the 'time out' ideas which definately helped the situation but didn't resolve it completely.
I then asked my daughter Maddisyn to try ignoring her when she hit her and pulling away if she tried to bite her and then walking away ignoring her.
Her and I both did this and I could see Layla-Mei looking for a reaction. After a week of 'ignoring' it, she stopped doing it!!
Worth a shot?
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mama_wendz
 My Girls: Maddisyn Tylr & Layla-Mei Virginia
My Baby Boy: Noah Aotearoa
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discipline/guidance help, please!
