https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/ Copyright (c) 2006-2013 Web Wiz Forums - All Rights Reserved. Thu, 09 Apr 2026 01:01:24 +0000 Mon, 20 Dec 2010 17:46:54 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 12.05 360 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=37133 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_images/web_wiz_forums.png https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/ https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224542&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224542 Author: Hopes
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 5:46pm

I guess you could say that the suffragates convinced the goverment / the rest of the country that their extreme views were right - or at least, convinced the majority that they were. I'm not a political person (AT ALL) but it feels to me that that's how it should be - everyone who has an opinion should be able to make it heard, and if it makes sense, the rest of the country might join them...]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 17:46:54 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224542&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224542 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224534&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224534 Author: Nutella
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 5:36pm

It's an interesting thought really....of course the extreme views of a few are often how laws are changed ie suffragates getting the women the vote and I dunno who but some people haha stopping child labour.

So in some ways the law is the defining factor but it is always evolving...after all it was not that long ago that we didn't have to wear bike helmets or strap kids into the cars...nowadays I think most of us would be horrified by an unrestrained child! (I hope anyway)]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 17:36:01 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224534&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224534 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224531&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224531 Author: Hopes
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 5:28pm

Yea, I think people have debated that a lot. I guess it is a fine line. I mean, I know I'm more than happy to have people who sexually abuse children punished to the full extent of the law. But some areas (like smacking and stuff) are a lot greyer. As I understand it, I don't think there's actually any official line in the sand, it's all up to public reaction.]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 17:28:52 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224531&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224531 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224525&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224525 Author: jazzy
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 5:25pm

Where do you draw the lines with putting in laws regarding parents decisions. Does that not make the parent just a baby sitter with no rights?]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 17:25:19 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224525&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224525 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224517&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224517 Author: Hopes
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 5:18pm

fattartsrock wrote: If you fell THAT strongly about it being child absue take your opinions to parliment, Drs offices etc, instead of putting them on here where others will feel judged and terrible about choices they have made.

Good point, and I do agree with that. I guess that's what laws are for - to separate the things that are decisions parents can make (that others might disagree with) from the things that are wrong to do. I guess in theory we are a democratic country, and if everyone strongly felt that circumcision shouldn't be allowed, we could change the laws to reflect that. In theory. Personally, although I chose not to circumcise Jacob, I wouldn't want laws made about it. But if you do happen to feel that strongly, absolutely take it up with the people who can change things.

ETA I guess that is kind of what you're asking, Nutella. As I see it, the country votes in the government, and in doing that gives them the job of making the decisions about what's a crime and what's a choice. In theory, the decisions they make should reflect what the people living in the country want. I know if real life it's never quite that simple, but I think that's how it would ideally work.

Edited by Hopes]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 17:18:40 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224517&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224517 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224512&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224512 Author: Nutella
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 5:15pm

Oh I mean I do feel strongly about child abuse but not strongly about this particular thing.....just to be clear...]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 17:15:08 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224512&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224512 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224510&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224510 Author: Nutella
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 5:13pm

Personally, I don't feel that strongly about it

I just started wondering about where we do draw the line, and who chooses it. With regards to people getting involved in other kids I mean.]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 17:13:34 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224510&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224510 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224499&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224499 Author: jazzy
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 4:57pm

fattartsrock wrote: If you fell THAT strongly about it being child absue take your opinions to parliment, Drs offices etc, instead of putting them on here where others will feel judged and terrible about choices they have made.

I have not read every post so have missed the abuse ones. ]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:57:45 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224499&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224499 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224498&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224498 Author: fattartsrock
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 4:57pm

YEah this is the place to share opinions etc, but calling people child abusers etc is a bit on the nose...
And you are right, freckle of course, in saying htat most people (bar the looney tune friend of mine) wouldn't put their baby through that without good reason.
Im sure circumsision isn't something that ANYONE goes into without alot of thought and discussion, however I don't think its right to make people feel sh*t cos its not something we would do/choose...]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:57:11 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224498&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224498 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224493&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224493 Author: freckle
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 4:46pm

I do get what your saying fattartsrock, and with most things I would totally agree (e.g. formula feeding, vaxxing, rear facing car seats, etc etc)... Circumcision just seems like a completely unnecessary risk to me. IMO our kids are from us, they don't belong to us... we're just lucky enough to get to care for them, and help and watch them grow... so I believe there are some things that should be parenting decisions and some that shouldn't IYGWIM... I think circumcision probably shouldn't really be a parenting decision, but then again I don't think most parents would subject their children to this procedure without good reason...]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:46:02 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224493&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224493 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224492&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224492 Author: jazzy
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 4:45pm

funny this is not a conversation I have had with anyone....nor is it one I would bring up with anyone IRL....cause what they do is their business & I'm not interested....

But the question was brought up in here & this is a place you can say your options...well most of the time ]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:45:55 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224492&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224492 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224491&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224491 Author: fattartsrock
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 4:45pm

Put it this way. Im quite sure that the Drs who perform it don't consider it child abuse, as I'm quite sure the Dr's who do terminations don't consider it murder. Those who feel strongly opposed to it won't do it, if you get what I mean?

IMHO, the line is when the babies/childs welfare and safety is seriously at risk, and judging by he fact that Drs perform circumsisions, the medical profession don't consider it to be a risk. One part of the hippocratic oath is "First do no harm"

Drs and the like are able to be "contiencious objectors" as in they are allowed to refuse to do certain things such as prescribe the BCP, MAP, terminations etc, however they must still give advice on those things.

And I don't care WHAT you are doing with your kids, it's not my "right" to judge you because I don't agree with it!

If we are gettign down to brass tacks here, I personally think CIO and sleep training are harmful to children and "abuse" and bad for their development, however its NOT my right to jump in and tell people they are abusive etc becasue they do it!!!!

If you fell THAT strongly about it being child absue take your opinions to parliment, Drs offices etc, instead of putting them on here where others will feel judged and terrible about choices they have made.



]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:45:17 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224491&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224491 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224489&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224489 Author: GuestGuest
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 4:42pm

fattartsrock wrote: And congrats on the BFP, Little Red, I know you have worked damn hard for it you must be rapt!

Hey thanks! ]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:42:31 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224489&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224489 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224486&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224486 Author: Nutella
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 4:34pm

But clearly some people consider circumcision to be akin to child abuse?
I just wonder (seriously) where do we draw the line between what is the business of a family and what is the business of others?

I am guessing it would be different for different people so can we:
a. judge someone for parenting choices
b. judge someone for believing something is wrong and feeling strongly about it?
]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:34:06 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224486&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224486 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224475&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224475 Author: fattartsrock
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 4:21pm

And congrats on the BFP, Little Red, I know you have worked damn hard for it you must be rapt!]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:21:05 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224475&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224475 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224473&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224473 Author: TheKelly
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 4:18pm

I get what Fats is saying,and I agree.


Gosh, 8 pages talking about dick heads ]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:18:37 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224473&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224473 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224471&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224471 Author: fattartsrock
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 4:17pm

I certainly didn't agree with getting it done for the look, however it was none of my busines, and not my place to comment.

Im not keen on it, and chose not to do it with our son, even though my circumsised husband wanted to, however it is/was no ones business if we did it or not.

And it dosn't become the "concern" of others as it is nobodies business but the family involved, like it or not.

IMHO you can't put circumsision "up there" with bashings, abuse, starving etc, things you SHOULDN'T turn a blind eye to.]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:17:19 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224471&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224471 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224463&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224463 Author: GuestGuest
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 4:07pm

Someone had their son circumcised for the "look"? Since when does anyone care how pretty their son's penis looks? I find that appalling

What if they think their son's nose is too big, are they going to give him plastic surgery? Where does it end??

Edited by Little_Red]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:07:09 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224463&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224463 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224457&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224457 Author: Nutella
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 4:04pm

So where does it become the concern of others who are concerned about the welfare of kids? We can't close our eyes to everything.]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:04:26 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224457&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224457 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224451&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224451 Author: jazzy
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 3:57pm

]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:57:55 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224451&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224451 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224402&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224402 Author: fattartsrock
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 2:58pm

I have 2 freinds who have had theri sons "done" one for "look" and one for religious reasons. Both weere done by local anasthetic and before baby was 2 weeks or soemthing like that? very young, anyhow.

As with anything to do with children it IS the parent's choice, wether you believe rightly or wrongly and EVERYTHING we do with our kids involves risk of death, even just going to the shops and NO ONE, not a one has a right to tell ANYONE they are child abusers or whatever because they CHOOSE to parent in a different manner to you, no matter WHAT that choice is, be it circumsision or smoking round your children or formula feeding or vaccination or not - LEAST of all those of you with NO CHILDREN.

Personally I HATE formula and I am a passionate vaccinator - and YES I did research and still chose to - however those are MY choices and I'd never ever tell anyone they were bad parents for choosing a different path to mine.

You ladies with your claws out need to grow up. My child MY bloody choice.
(and no I didn't circumsise but if I wanted to what business is it of YOURS)]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 14:58:48 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224402&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224402 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224390&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224390 Author: lizzle
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 2:44pm

Oh yeah, i did see that. but couldn't find anything to back up the claims.]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 14:44:00 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224390&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224390 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224322&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224322 Author: newme
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 1:19pm

lizzle wrote: hila1 wrote: More babies die in the USA each year from circumcision than from SIDS. sorry, I don't buy that. where did you get that information from? (and yes, i will apologise if i'm wrong)

There was a study published earlier this year. You can read about it here]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 13:19:27 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224322&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224322 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224204&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224204 Author: girly_girl
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 10:53am

Circumcision to me seems archaic and cruel, regardless of whether it be for male or female. We, as a species, have evolved to have foreskin , there is a reason that it is there. The only time I would ever consider it, is for medical reasons only - and only then after every other avenue had been thoroughly pursued. There are instances where it is necessary to go down that path, but I would certainly never advocate circumcision as an 'easy' alternative - it is surgery, it is invasive, there are complications, and it does hurt! I believe we live in a society that far too easily resorts to surgery for a fast fix, and for that very reason I am absolutely 'anti'.]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 10:53:32 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224204&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224204 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224050&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224050 Author: jazzy
Subject: 37133
Posted: 20 December 2010 at 7:02am

two_boys wrote: Jazzy I picked on your comment cos it seemed like you were saying that female circumcision, even of the type that isn't detrimental to the womans sex life and is done in a consenting manner was some how worse than an infant being circumcised without any consent at all just because they are male.

& if you had read my comment on the page before that one you would of seen my take on the male one, so you picked half of my conversations.

& I said I have 3 boys & would not put them through a surgical/ medical procedure that was not nessary & not knowing the out come in yrs to come is irrisponiable.

I do however think that female circumcision will definitely affect sex for the women & to the point enjoyment for her is lacking. To me it says only the man should enjoy sex & the women is just a piece of meat to be uses how he wishes. Those countries that do it do not respect women.

Women & Male circumcision is different, the reasons behind it is different. I see the women one as abuse & the male one as something that was done yrs ago that is not necessary now so as a mother to 3 boys I chose not to do it or interfere with their reproductive organs...

So I am not for circumcision & totally against female circumcision.]]> Mon, 20 Dec 2010 07:02:39 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224050&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224050 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224035&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224035 Author: TheKelly
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 11:26pm

pudgy wrote: TheKelly wrote: There is a great book by a model called Waris Dirie and of course I've forgotten the title of the book, but she ran away from Somalia when she was 13, and ended up in America eventually , she was a victim of female circumcision, but not by choice and it went into a lot of description that left me wanting to hold my vajayjay protectively, anyway, good book if anyone wants to read it...whatever its called I'm pretty sure that's called Desert Flower ?

Yes!!! thats it,knew someone would know it...thanks ! ]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 23:26:37 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224035&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224035 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224022&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224022 Author: cuppatea
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 10:58pm

You can read the procedures used in nz on the southern cross website.

http://www.southerncross.co.nz/AboutTheGroup/HealthResources/MedicalLibrary/tabid/178/vw/1/ItemID/195/Circumcision.aspx

In the US they don't use anaeasthetic cos they believe babies can't feel pain

Plus you can look up videos of it being done, not that I think most people would want to see that!

This is a good source of information for anyone who wants to learn a little more about it

http://www.thewholenetwork.org/various-consequences-of-circumcising-baby-boys.html]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 22:58:19 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224022&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224022 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224016&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224016 Author: pudgy
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 10:46pm

babylove wrote: do any of you know what the procedure for an infant is???

I believe in NZ that the plastibell method is the most common.
I've never seen it done but I believe they put the plastic bell part over the head of the penis under the foreskin and then tie it off tightly, apparently it takes 3-5 days to come off    

Either that or they surgically remove it using local or general anesthetic.

It just shouldn't be done full stop.





]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 22:46:41 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224016&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224016 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224015&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224015 Author: pudgy
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 10:36pm

TheKelly wrote: There is a great book by a model called Waris Dirie and of course I've forgotten the title of the book, but she ran away from Somalia when she was 13, and ended up in America eventually , she was a victim of female circumcision, but not by choice and it went into a lot of description that left me wanting to hold my vajayjay protectively, anyway, good book if anyone wants to read it...whatever its called

I'm pretty sure that's called Desert Flower ?

]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 22:36:27 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224015&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224015 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224009&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224009 Author: lizzle
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 10:23pm

Read those reports, but the data collection looked dodgy and i couldn't find any other research that backed up their findings. i am inclined to be sceptical about those results.

in saying, i don't believe in circumcision and didn't even contemplate it when i had my two boys. TBH wasn't aware it was still an option.]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 22:23:51 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224009&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224009 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224004&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224004 Author: cuppatea
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 10:14pm

Jazzy I picked on your comment cos it seemed like you were saying that female circumcision, even of the type that isn't detrimental to the womans sex life and is done in a consenting manner was some how worse than an infant being circumcised without any consent at all just because they are male.

I would have no issue with a 14 year old boy (who I believe would be old enough to understand the ramifications) consenting to it, as long as it is actual consent and not consent or get disowned sort of consenting and I have no issues to women consenting to it as well, if that's what they want that is up to them.

Parki, I have a problem with circumcision being a parental decision, not directly with those parents doing it, I have no doubt that they love their children and think they are doing the best thing for them.

I read that statistics on circumcision deaths are hard to evaluate properly because they get classified as death from heamorrhage or infection or meningitis etc because that is the bit that actually kills them the fact that they had just had a circumcision doesn't come in to. Bit like when someone gets classed as dying from flu when they are already battling cancer.
Fortunately in the US less and less are choosing to circumcise because they are getting educated and people like medicare are removing funding for routine infant circumcision because people like the American Academy of Paedatrics is not in support of it.


]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 22:14:07 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1224004&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1224004 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223953&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223953 Author: freckle
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 8:44pm

Parki wrote: two_boys wrote: Well Kebakat wrote that her husband had issues with sensation and enjoying sex so obviously male circumcision can cause the same issues, and his wasn't done in some third world country was it? Bit generalised there, my DH (& his 3 brothers) is circumcised and has no such issues??

I don't see how they'd know they had reduced sensitivity unless they have experienced both being circumcised and uncircumcised? From what I'd heard people who have stretched the foreskin back or have had had it removed later in life have reported reduced sensitivity, and I guess they would be the most reliable to report on this...]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 20:44:17 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223953&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223953 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223949&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223949 Author: Happy lady
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 8:42pm


[/QUOTE]

.

I don't have a strong opinon either way but I do have an opinion on close minded people throwing about insults on other people parenting decisions, so sort yourselves out!

Hmmmph. [/QUOTE]

Like!!!]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 20:42:57 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223949&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223949 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223943&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223943 Author: Nothing
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 8:36pm

Lizzle- Read this

http://www.drmomma.org/2010/05/death-from-circumcision.html

Sorry it doesnt say how many die of SIDS, but is does say how many die from circumcision- those that are reported anyway

Edited by Aethalia]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 20:36:39 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223943&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223943 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223941&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223941 Author: Happy lady
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 8:34pm

Lizzle.... I meant that I agree with you and also find it hard to beleive that more children die from circumsicion than SIDS each year.]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 20:34:48 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223941&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223941 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223939&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223939 Author: babylove
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 8:33pm

do any of you know what the procedure for an infant is???]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 20:33:56 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223939&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223939 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223938&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223938 Author: Parki
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 8:33pm

two_boys wrote: Well Kebakat wrote that her husband had issues with sensation and enjoying sex so obviously male circumcision can cause the same issues, and his wasn't done in some third world country was it?

Bit generalised there, my DH (& his 3 brothers) is circumcised and has no such issues??

Everyone will have different experiences.

I don't have a strong opinon either way but I do have an opinion on close minded people throwing about insults on other people parenting decisions, so sort yourselves out!

Hmmmph. ]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 20:33:53 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223938&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223938 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223927&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223927 Author: lizzle
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 8:22pm

Unless you too have found a study that talks about neonatal boys? if you look at this study though - the results have been found to have been flawed and disproven by the majority of US physicians.]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 20:22:30 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223927&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223927 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223926&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223926 Author: Happy lady
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 8:21pm

I also find it hard to beleive? ]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 20:21:49 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223926&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223926 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223921&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223921 Author: lizzle
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 8:18pm

in fact, i found this:

the American Academy of Family Physicians states that death is rare, and cites an estimated death rate of 1 infant in 500,000 from circumcision]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 20:18:11 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223921&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223921 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223918&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223918 Author: lizzle
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 8:15pm

hila1 wrote: More babies die in the USA each year from circumcision than from SIDS.

sorry, I don't buy that. where did you get that information from? (and yes, i will apologise if i'm wrong)]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 20:15:09 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223918&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223918 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223851&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223851 Author: JadeC
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 6:06pm

hila1 wrote: To make the decision for someone else to have part of their body surgically removed, without medical reason, is wrong.

This is where I stand too. I cannot imagine a reason that would make me make this choice for my son, let alone put him through an unecessary medical procedure at such a young age.

His body, his choice.]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 18:06:51 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223851&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223851 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223802&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223802 Author: JD
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 4:41pm

I have two boys and neither of them are circumsised....my husband is. I left the decision completely up to him since he knows what it is like to be circumsised.
Personally I like it that he is...I prefer the look of it, and it seems cleaner to me (completely personal opinion).
In saying that, I do not like the fact it is a procedure that is not required for the sake of their health and I would be very unhappy about my boys having to go through something like that at such a young age.
I have a bil who is also circumsised and he is insisting that his boys get done also...if they happen to have boys.

It is quite a tricky topic, and I felt happy to leave the decision up to dh since he is a male and knows more about the repicussions than I do.
If he wanted them done...I may have felt differently about leaving the decision up to him ]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 16:41:37 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223802&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223802 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223771&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223771 Author: nicandtyler
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 4:08pm

hila1 wrote: To make the decision for someone else to have part of their body surgically removed, without medical reason, is wrong. .

agree]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 16:08:11 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223771&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223771 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223752&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223752 Author: jazzy
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 3:38pm

I think these topics often open up side lines & it is interesting to see others points of view

& with that in mind I remember the stories by m/w's at work saying how they had to sew up women tighter after birth for their husbands...just really grates me & that is my angle on female circumcision etc.]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 15:38:37 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223752&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223752 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223748&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223748 Author: TheKelly
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 3:32pm

There is a great book by a model called Waris Dirie and of course I've forgotten the title of the book, but she ran away from Somalia when she was 13, and ended up in America eventually , she was a victim of female circumcision, but not by choice and it went into a lot of description that left me wanting to hold my vajayjay protectively, anyway, good book if anyone wants to read it...whatever its called

LOl Waiting, no no singing yet....

And Shez, I KNOW!!! scary ! and 33 weeks on Tues, eek!

I wanted to come on here and say that after reading this discussion I have been having THE kinkiest dreams about my circumsized ex, so ,thanks ! ]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 15:32:09 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223748&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223748 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223740&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223740 Author: Plushie
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 3:21pm

Honestly, that was my first reaction too since i am quite capable of being a woman and being accepted as a woman by my society without anyone cutting any part of me and it still makes me quite sad but whatever spins their wheels, i guess.

I mostly came back to apologize for going RIGHT off topic - we are supposed to be debating circumcision of an infant and i clearly was talking about consenting adults.

If someone suggested it was a good idea to lop of their infant girls genitals i would be up in arms about it.

So i apologize again for getting well off topic and ask that the statements i made be ignored as they have little to no relevance to the topic!]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 15:21:30 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223740&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223740 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223733&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223733 Author: jazzy
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 3:02pm

bowie wrote: And as the long winded tale in my first post said these woman arent controlled by it or forced into it - YES there are versions that remove all sensation and make sex excrutiatingly painfuly for woman and that is wrong but not always. Just because something is different it doesnt mean its bad.

I see mutilating a women's sexuality as bad.
I know they do things like this & more that I do not agree with & they are done in countries that are very different from mine...but I don't like it & feel sorry for them because it is not the way it should be. ]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 15:02:06 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223733&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223733 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223720&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223720 Author: Plushie
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 2:30pm

And as the long winded tale in my first post said these woman arent controlled by it or forced into it - YES there are versions that remove all sensation and make sex excrutiatingly painfuly for woman and that is wrong but not always. Just because something is different it doesnt mean its bad.

Basically i work on the opinion that you can do whatever you want with your body, including your genitals - YOUR genitals not your neighbours, not your friends and to an extend not your childs either although of course sometimes there is medical reasons behind and and thats a whole other thing.


]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 14:30:50 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223720&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223720 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223718&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223718 Author: jazzy
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 2:30pm

I remember reading an interview on Iman (model) & her female circumcision that was the first time I had ever heard of it & the thought of it makes me sick that something so unnecessary can be done to a women. Also read an article on a man that had problems preforming because of it. Why would you do that to your child?

I have 3 boys & as I have said they are not done & it is an unnecessary surgical procedure that I would not put my children through. It is not popular in the country DH was born.

Back in the days it was done for reasons that are not relevant now. I don't see why you would interfere & redesign with a child's genitals anyway.

Medical reasons aside.

But really why would you do it.???

]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 14:30:16 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223718&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223718 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223702&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223702 Author: newme
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 2:03pm

To make the decision for someone else to have part of their body surgically removed, without medical reason, is wrong.

More babies die in the USA each year from circumcision than from SIDS.]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 14:03:32 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223702&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223702 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223698&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223698 Author: jazzy
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 1:53pm

two_boys & kiwi2 maybe you should read my other post a page back.

My comment above was to with with female circumcision & where I stand on that.....]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 13:53:18 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223698&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223698 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223697&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223697 Author: Nutella
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 1:50pm

I guess it depends on what you are classifying as female circumcision (and what you are comparing it to for the male circumcision). I guess that with this topic I tend to think of female circumcision as the more extreme FGM which is ten million times worse than forskin removal on a male (usually).

And I wouldn't do it to my son or daughter unless for medical reasons.]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 13:50:45 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223697&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223697 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223694&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223694 Author: kiwi2
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 1:46pm

[OUOTE/] I don't agree with female circumcision...I don't care if it is culture or what & if it is done here it should be banned...it is just some barbaric way of controlling & denying a woman....those women have no choice & don't know any better.

It is totally different from male circumcision.[/QUOTE]

Because a baby boy does have a choice and knows better?

Vowed to stay out of this as I don't have a strong opinion either way but this statement just came out wrong I think. I know what you are trying to say though. But I think it applies to both sexes that argument.

oops stuffed up the quote thing

Edited by kiwi2]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 13:46:42 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223694&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223694 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223693&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223693 Author: cuppatea
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 1:44pm

jazzy wrote: bowie wrote: I will try again on the female circumcision, as i personally know an entire family of circumcised woman and they are proud of it - their culture demands the removal of the inner labia (or a portion off) to be recognized as a woman, and when it is done there is feasting, praying and dancing all around, all in the honor of the new 'woman'. They are all SO proud to have had it done, regard it as the finest day in their life, and display pictures of them dressed in full traditional dress as guest of honor at a huge party that apparently goes on for days. And no, they're not young children when this happens - it is done after their first menstural period which is often age 14 or 15. I see no harm in this (in their culture, in their country mind, i would have a different opinion if they were doing it in the house down the road) and i regard it as similar to men being asked to endure days of ritual tattooing before achieving man status - this also can lead to infection and death, and has in NZ in the past. Old men hacking the clitoris of young girls with sharp rocks and blunt rusty knives should be chased down and have the same done to them. And female circumcision is a common and much requested body modification. Also a labiaplasty (which some could consider circumcision) is an increasingly common plastic surgery. Both of which are done as adults for asthetic reasons, so i'm not sure it counts but i thought i'd throw it out there. I don't agree with female circumcision...I don't care if it is culture or what & if it is done here it should be banned...it is just some barbaric way of controlling & denying a woman....those women have no choice & don't know any better. It is totally different from male circumcision.

And an infant boy having a circumcision does know better and has a choice?

I'm sorry but you only think male circumcision is different because it is more socially acceptable in our society/culture.]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 13:44:49 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223693&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223693 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223690&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223690 Author: jazzy
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 1:36pm

bowie wrote: I will try again on the female circumcision, as i personally know an entire family of circumcised woman and they are proud of it - their culture demands the removal of the inner labia (or a portion off) to be recognized as a woman, and when it is done there is feasting, praying and dancing all around, all in the honor of the new 'woman'. They are all SO proud to have had it done, regard it as the finest day in their life, and display pictures of them dressed in full traditional dress as guest of honor at a huge party that apparently goes on for days. And no, they're not young children when this happens - it is done after their first menstural period which is often age 14 or 15. I see no harm in this (in their culture, in their country mind, i would have a different opinion if they were doing it in the house down the road) and i regard it as similar to men being asked to endure days of ritual tattooing before achieving man status - this also can lead to infection and death, and has in NZ in the past. Old men hacking the clitoris of young girls with sharp rocks and blunt rusty knives should be chased down and have the same done to them. And female circumcision is a common and much requested body modification. Also a labiaplasty (which some could consider circumcision) is an increasingly common plastic surgery. Both of which are done as adults for asthetic reasons, so i'm not sure it counts but i thought i'd throw it out there.

I don't agree with female circumcision...I don't care if it is culture or what & if it is done here it should be banned...it is just some barbaric way of controlling & denying a woman....those women have no choice & don't know any better.

It is totally different from male circumcision.]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 13:36:05 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223690&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223690 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223667&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223667 Author: cuppatea
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 12:52pm

Well Kebakat wrote that her husband had issues with sensation and enjoying sex so obviously male circumcision can cause the same issues, and his wasn't done in some third world country was it?

Female and male circumcision are designed to stop pleasure by removing the bundle of nerves. They are not that different except that I suppose first world countries generally don't do female circumciosn so most of the ones that are done (except maybe the type that bowie is talking about) are done in third world countries in appaling conditions and further complications are caused, but then there are the same complications with cord cutting and male circumcision because again it's the third world and they don't use sterile equipment and the people performing it aren't always medically trained, or sufficiently trained anyway. So the issue isn't the procedure but where and by who it is performed. If it was available through southern cross by doctors using general anaesthetic (as it is for male circumcision) would it then be ok to do it to your daughter?]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 12:52:17 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223667&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223667 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223653&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223653 Author: Bizzy
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 12:20pm

Nutella wrote: I actually think there is a world of difference between male and female circumcision. I don't think they should be compared!!! Men go on to have perfectly satisfactory and enjoyable sex lives but the women can go on to have pain for the rest of their lives. But that is just my opinion lol.

i was going to same the same thing!

also too that historically male and female circumcision were done for entirely different reasons.

Edited by Bizzy]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 12:20:36 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223653&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223653 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223633&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223633 Author: Plushie
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 11:33am

OH MY GOSH, three times i have tried to write this post and three times i have lost it. Obviously what i have to say is not meant to be heard!!!

I will try again on the female circumcision, as i personally know an entire family of circumcised woman and they are proud of it - their culture demands the removal of the inner labia (or a portion off) to be recognized as a woman, and when it is done there is feasting, praying and dancing all around, all in the honor of the new 'woman'. They are all SO proud to have had it done, regard it as the finest day in their life, and display pictures of them dressed in full traditional dress as guest of honor at a huge party that apparently goes on for days. And no, they're not young children when this happens - it is done after their first menstural period which is often age 14 or 15. I see no harm in this (in their culture, in their country mind, i would have a different opinion if they were doing it in the house down the road) and i regard it as similar to men being asked to endure days of ritual tattooing before achieving man status - this also can lead to infection and death, and has in NZ in the past.

Old men hacking the clitoris of young girls with sharp rocks and blunt rusty knives should be chased down and have the same done to them.

And female circumcision is a common and much requested body modification. Also a labiaplasty (which some could consider circumcision) is an increasingly common plastic surgery. Both of which are done as adults for asthetic reasons, so i'm not sure it counts but i thought i'd throw it out there.
]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 11:33:50 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223633&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223633 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223615&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223615 Author: freckle
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 11:05am

Yeah two-boys it does seem to be a bit of a double standard (although it does seem most disagree with male circumcision as well)... I guess the difference I see is that lack of circumcision in males at times leads to problems which require the operation to be carried out at a later date, whereas this isn't the case with females. It 's not a subject I have given a great amount of thought to (with my 3rd girl on the way) but I do believe it is something that should only be done for medical reasons and I do think it probably shouldn't really be a parenting decision... and probably one day won't be??]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 11:05:01 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223615&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223615 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223614&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223614 Author: Nutella
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 11:00am

I actually think there is a world of difference between male and female circumcision. I don't think they should be compared!!!
Men go on to have perfectly satisfactory and enjoyable sex lives but the women can go on to have pain for the rest of their lives.

But that is just my opinion lol.]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 11:00:09 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223614&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223614 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223573&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223573 Author: cuppatea
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 9:45am

When they are babies it's attached so if you try to pull it back you can do them some serious damage. You shouldn't teach them about cleaning underneath until they have found that it comes back.

I don't think bessiebear was saying she wouldn't do it for medical reasons, I dont' think anyone said they wouldn't even if it was medically indicated that would be ridiculous. It was doing it for non medical reasons (or just in case it's medically needed later on) that some of us don't think should be up to parental choice.

No one answered about the female circumcision, guess everyone thinks that's wrong, but it's not wrong to do it to a boy, bit of a double standard their isnt' it?]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 09:45:12 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223573&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223573 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223515&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223515 Author: WestiesGirl
Subject: 37133
Posted: 19 December 2010 at 12:51am

melnel wrote: And for those of you who are planning to teach your boy to clean it.. please discuss this with a medical professional if you have not already. Our paed reeled at the suggestion of doing anything other than just normal external washing with soap. He was adamant that was all that was necessary and that making a boy peel it back to clean was cruel and unnceccesary... so just thought I would chuck that out there. As others have said, its there to keep germs out, peeling it back will expose germs which defeats the purpose of the cleaning iygwim.

Good point Mel. I think I read some where, and correct me if Im wrong, you dont need to do anything with it until your boy is comfortable with it and doing it himself. Which can even be right up to puberty age.]]> Sun, 19 Dec 2010 00:51:51 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223515&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223515 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223499&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223499 Author: Babykatnz
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 11:11pm

What i didnt know (I was only ever told NOT to pull it back!) was that at around the age of 5/6 years it should start to be able to open up and come away from the tip... if I HAD known, then I wouldnt have assumed DS's pain while urinating was a UTI. Now that the skin is gone... he keeps playing with it... I dont think the fascination with seeing whats been hiding under the skin for so long has quite worn off yet

Bessiebear, thats a really harsh statement to make given that you yourself have been put in the position of having to consider a medical circumcision recently. Even prior to having to make this decision a few months ago, I would NEVER have said something like that, its not neglect, its not mutilation, it is something that has been around for hundreds of years, and is a common part of some cultures. Would you call ALL jewish parents horrible parents who dont deserve to have kids?! Just because I chose NOT to have it done when my son was born, doesnt mean I think those who do get it done 'dont deserve to be parents'.]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 23:11:53 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223499&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223499 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223498&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223498 Author: Happy lady
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 11:11pm

Bizzy wrote: great points about the cleaning melnel!

I agree... something I never knew!!
]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 23:11:21 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223498&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223498 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223490&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223490 Author: MamaT
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 11:02pm

Good to know about the cleaning, thanks Mel

DH was of the generation where it was commonplace to be circ at birth, his brother, 4 years younger isn't done as by then it just wasn't done anymore.
We discussed it briefly when we discovered we were expecting a boy, but DH wasn't keen and I'd never thought of having it done so that was the end of that.
If it was medically required I wouldn't hesitate though. ]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 23:02:52 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223490&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223490 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223462&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223462 Author: Bizzy
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 10:19pm

great points about the cleaning melnel!]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 22:19:19 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223462&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223462 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223450&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223450 Author: mummyofprinces
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 9:55pm

DH wanted to get Jake done because he thought he would be the odd one out and be made fun of in the locker room... I told him it was his decision but I wanted him to research it first and give me 5 good reasons.

He came back with none, as soon as learnt how its not common place he didnt want to do it anymore, might have been because I told him he had to find the person to do it and he would be taking him on his own. I wanted nothing to do with it.

IMO it is mutilation if performed for non-medical reasons and I just dont see any pro's to it whatsoever. But as always its YOUR decision nobody elses and to those being ever so righteous, lets hope you never have to get down off your soapbox... it will be a long fall!

And for those of you who are planning to teach your boy to clean it.. please discuss this with a medical professional if you have not already. Our paed reeled at the suggestion of doing anything other than just normal external washing with soap. He was adamant that was all that was necessary and that making a boy peel it back to clean was cruel and unnceccesary... so just thought I would chuck that out there. As others have said, its there to keep germs out, peeling it back will expose germs which defeats the purpose of the cleaning iygwim.

]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 21:55:03 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223450&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223450 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223410&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223410 Author: jazzy
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 8:55pm

It was a common thing to do years ago & it was done at birth. Now days you have to pay to have it done & it serves no real purpose but cosmetic.

Unless there is a medical reason that requires it to be done then there is no point in doing it. Totally unnecessary.

In regards to better sex whether he is circumcised or not it is down to his abilities

It is not common where my DH comes from & we never considered it for our boys, but before I meet him I always thought if I had a boy I would have it done as my boyfriends had been....never fell pg before DH....

hmm wonder what the pg hit rate is with circumcised vs not ]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 20:55:01 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223410&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223410 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223376&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223376 Author: _H_
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 7:41pm

Sheza wrote: lol Ive been with both and I dont notice the difference!!!

Same! they only look different

its interesting reading that some males want to have it done to their DS just because they are done. I personally dont think its right just to do something because you want them to be like you! like any big decision you need to do your own research on it and work out the pro/cons

Kelly are you going to start singing yet? ]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 19:41:48 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223376&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223376 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223366&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223366 Author: Natalie_G
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 7:26pm

Hopes wrote: I was just reading this article, and couldn't help but think of this thread... These kind of parents are the ones who shouldn't be allowed children. No matter where any of us stand on this issue, I'm pretty sure we're all making the choices we make with our children's best interests at heart, unlike these monsters.

I nearly threw up!

How DARE they get name suppression!

They should be subjected to the same abuse their child was!!!!! ]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 19:26:02 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223366&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223366 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223365&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223365 Author: Shezamumof3
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 7:25pm

OT but kelly, nooooooooooooooooooooo 32 weeks!?? Nooooooooo you cant be!! ]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 19:25:14 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223365&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223365 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223357&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223357 Author: TheKelly
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 7:01pm

Heh heh, 5 pages....been a while since a good ol Oh Baby debate ]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 19:01:18 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223357&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223357 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223314&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223314 Author: High9
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 5:47pm

Mealza wrote: BessieBear wrote: HA, I'll judge, if you choose to cut up you son then you shouldn't be allowed to be parents. It's mutilation. Babies can die from having this done and if your willing to risk losing your child becasue of your own reasons then thats something you'll have to live with for the rest of your lives. Bessie Bear what would happen if your child needed a medical related circumcision? Would this still be mutilating your child?

I agree, and if your boy needed it done would you let him suffer on/off with pain or just get it done and not have the pain iygwim?

Each to their own imo, who are we to judge really. ]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 17:47:23 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223314&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223314 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223296&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223296 Author: Happy lady
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 5:18pm

BessieBear wrote: HA, I'll judge, if you choose to cut up you son then you shouldn't be allowed to be parents. It's mutilation. Babies can die from having this done and if your willing to risk losing your child becasue of your own reasons then thats something you'll have to live with for the rest of your lives.

Bessie Bear what would happen if your child needed a medical related circumcision? Would this still be mutilating your child?

I think we all make choices that we think best for our children and whether we do or dont circumsise should not determine if we should be allowed to have children.]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 17:18:50 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223296&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223296 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223262&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223262 Author: Mucky_Tiger
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 3:48pm

heres quite a good article about circumcision and incidence with herpeshere

(and it also mentions iron absorption in BF vs FF babies)]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 15:48:39 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223262&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223262 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223233&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223233 Author: Shezamumof3
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 2:51pm

Bizz, I think hopes was just saying that THOSE are the type of people that dont deserve to be parents, as some hurtful things were said in this thread about parents who circumsize their boys, ie, that they dont deserve to parents, which is nasty and way off.]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 14:51:21 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223233&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223233 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223225&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223225 Author: kiwimum2010
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 2:42pm

Great to see some nice comments now and people respecting each others decisions and rights. We here I believe are all good parents and hence we are passionate about things such as to circ or not. However lets continue to all be adults and respectfull of parents decisions and opinions if we do this in the best interests.

A follow on note, anyone who is thinking of finding out more and wants to speak to doctor etc who do do circ I am happy to PM info I used and doctors details. The doctor we used was pro it, however is also my sisters doctor and she chose not to circ her 2 sons and the doctor respected fully there decision. ]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 14:42:24 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223225&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223225 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223220&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223220 Author: nicandtyler
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 2:37pm

oh my gosh! that article was HORRIBLE! those...im reluctant to say people...or animals for that matter, those things should not have name suppression, they don't deserve any protection! omg that poor poor poor little girl, that breaks my heart ]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 14:37:19 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223220&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223220 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223192&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223192 Author: Hopes
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 12:54pm

Sorry, Bizzy, I didn't mean to offend you. I thought it was relevant because people are tearing strips off each other and saying things like 'people who circumcise kids don't deserve to be parents'. I was just trying to say that people who care about their kids do deserve to be parents, whether they circumcise them or not, and pointing out a couple who make a slight contrast to everyone here, no matter what side they're on.

I do see what you mean, though, it's not exactly circumcision-related.

Edited by Hopes]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 12:54:22 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223192&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223192 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223185&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223185 Author: Bizzy
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 12:44pm

hopes that has nothing to do with this thread and completely irrelevant!]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 12:44:41 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223185&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223185 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223183&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223183 Author: High9
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 12:36pm

That article absolutely disgusted me! ]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 12:36:55 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223183&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223183 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223173&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223173 Author: Hopes
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 12:16pm

I was just reading this article, and couldn't help but think of this thread...

These kind of parents are the ones who shouldn't be allowed children. No matter where any of us stand on this issue, I'm pretty sure we're all making the choices we make with our children's best interests at heart, unlike these monsters. ]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 12:16:56 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223173&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223173 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223162&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223162 Author: Shezamumof3
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 12:04pm

lol Ive been with both and I dont notice the difference!!!

Edited by Sheza]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 12:04:43 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223162&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223162 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223144&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223144 Author: Babykatnz
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 11:23am

At the risk of sounding rather coarse... its a lot easier to give a guy a BJ if he IS done, but I wouldnt know about loss of sensation, the guy I (wont say went OUT with as we were not in a relationship... just regular friends... with benefits ) slept with for a while wasnt done and I hated the feeling of loose skin in my mouth, but he also liked it rather 'rough', whereas DP is done and isnt nearly as rough... prob wayyy TMI, but meh.

These days Bowie, you're best to ask around friends who have had boys and gotten them done to fins out where and who did it, then go talk to that medical proffessional. Alternatively ask your GP, they are bound to know of doctor/s who do the procedure, and are not allowed to tell you that you cant get it done, they can just refuse to do the procedure themselves.]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 11:23:59 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223144&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223144 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223122&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223122 Author: Keleho
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 10:43am

DH is circumsised and my ex (who I was with for 3 odd years) wasnt. I didnt notice much of a difference (as far as the feel of it - sorry TMI but you asked haha) but I do think DH is perhaps a bit cleaner - that may be down to the individual himself, not whether he is snipped or not.

We have talked about if we would or wouldnt a few times (since as I say, DH is) but have decided we likely wouldnt. DH initially wanted to for two reasons: he is, and he feels it is cleaner BUT after discussing the pros and cons, he changed his mind. Mostly as it is causing unnecessary pain, cost and mucking around involved and because he remembers that he was looked at as 'different' at school and doesnt want that for our sons especially as it is even more uncommon nowadays.

In saying that, if it was medically necessary, I wouldnt hesitate just as I would do any other procedure if it was necessary.

I dont think its anyones place to judge another parent for doing something that they believe in - be that for religious reasons or otherwise. Perhaps if it was accepted a bit more those that did need to would not have as high a risk of a botched job. My sister works in peadiatrics and mentioned that its often those who have used a friend of the family or the like (rather than a medical professional in a hospital) to carry out the procedure that have problems.]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 10:43:54 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223122&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223122 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223080&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223080 Author: MuppetsMama
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 9:03am

Wow bessiebear, that was pretty harsh!

My DH and all his family are circumsised, and im really interested in the sensation factor...seems like we tick a lot of boxes for that having an effect on us...has anyone here had both types of partners (for a considerable amount of time) and noticed a difference between the two? bit of a personal question i know but hey.]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 09:03:26 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223080&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223080 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223037&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223037 Author: LittleBug
Subject: 37133
Posted: 18 December 2010 at 7:44am

Disclaimer about my above post, I wasn't meaning to put anyone down, just stating something relevant to the topic.

I have nothing against people that circumcise their kids for medical OR religious reasons. TBH I'm not sure I see a great deal of difference between someone getting their kid circumcised for religious (or other) reason and someone who gets their baby/toddlers ears pierced... they are both painful and a personal choice thing for the parents.]]> Sat, 18 Dec 2010 07:44:56 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223037&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223037 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223005&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223005 Author: Alice77
Subject: 37133
Posted: 17 December 2010 at 11:50pm

http://kidshealth.org/parent/system/surgical/circumcision.html#



thought id add my two cents in, I cant say i know much about this topic but maybe this info might be usefull

:)]]> Fri, 17 Dec 2010 23:50:58 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223005&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223005 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223001&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223001 Author: Plushie
Subject: 37133
Posted: 17 December 2010 at 11:20pm

I feel like i might get flamed for this but i have to ask - HOW do you get this done? I assume you have to go searching out a specialist, that the pediatrician in the hospital won't/can't do it?

Obv if i were looking at it seriously as an option i'd find out myself while doing serious research, meeting doctors, asking questions etc. But i'm in the not my thing unless medically required camp and i'm curious, really.]]> Fri, 17 Dec 2010 23:20:41 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1223001&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1223001 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1222985&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1222985 Author: Babykatnz
Subject: 37133
Posted: 17 December 2010 at 10:44pm

Nutella, i didnt research it at all with my oldest either, I was 19 at the time, had noone I could ask for advice (living out of town, so no family or friends, and no net access either) and even though his father and uncles ARE done, we chose not to simply because I didnt like the thought of it, we never even discussed it, just didnt bother getting it done. Plus I didnt know of any doctors around Waikato region that DO the procedure anyways.

While waiting to find out if this one would be a boy or girl, DP and I had serious 'discussions' (esp since my oldest had to have a medical circ immediately prior to finding out this ones gender) as to whether or not to get it done. He wanted to simply because he is, and his friends got their boys done earlier this year, but even after seeing what my DS went through, I still thought it wasnt the right choice for ME. I dont go bagging my sister out and calling her a bad mother because she has had all 4 of hers done, thats HER choice, and is nothing to do with me.]]> Fri, 17 Dec 2010 22:44:05 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1222985&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1222985 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1222978&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1222978 Author: Nutella
Subject: 37133
Posted: 17 December 2010 at 10:30pm

Oh my god, I must be the worst parent out there because honestly...I didn't research it at all...didn't even think about it, the only time I have ever heard of people doing it is on here...

So we didn't do it, and to be honest wouldn't see a reason for it but sure as heck don't give a rats arse about what anyone else does as long as they are not INTENTIONALLY hurting their babies.]]> Fri, 17 Dec 2010 22:30:33 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1222978&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1222978 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1222969&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1222969 Author: Plushie
Subject: 37133
Posted: 17 December 2010 at 10:08pm

*like* the last two posts ]]> Fri, 17 Dec 2010 22:08:25 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1222969&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1222969 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1222908&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1222908 Author: Lou1972
Subject: 37133
Posted: 17 December 2010 at 8:52pm

Both my boys are circumsised.It's not something we did lighlty,did loads of research.

I'm shocked by some people's reactions on here.It's a very personal decision and cant believe that people are so judgemental.

To the poster who said parents who do it are bad parents well,what a horrible thing to say.Talk about over reacting!]]> Fri, 17 Dec 2010 20:52:42 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1222908&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1222908 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1222902&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1222902 Author: Shezamumof3
Subject: 37133
Posted: 17 December 2010 at 8:46pm

I agree 100% Kiwimum!]]> Fri, 17 Dec 2010 20:46:19 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1222902&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1222902 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1222897&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1222897 Author: kiwimum2010
Subject: 37133
Posted: 17 December 2010 at 8:42pm

ahhh the circumcision debate has surfaced again!
Alway's comes up every 6 or so months.
Must say who ever said that it's abuse or harm are you crazy!!!
It is not abuse.It is a procedure that is needed in some males.

No one has died from it in NZ.
really some people just like to scare others.!!!

Do the research and make the decision on your values and morals and not someones opinion or someone trying to scare you.

Come on people this is only one of the many many many decisions we favce as parents. You can only do what you think is right. Don't judge!

=====================================

TOTALLY AGREE. there are fors and againsts and the best parents do there research and make there own informed decisions. Those of you on here who are being disrespectful and in a sense abusing those who choose too circ, I am disgusted! My research was 9 months long, not a quick easy decision at all, but one that I was 100% with and my DH was when we choose to circ our DS. We are far from bad parents and I have the most amazing little boy.   
If you choose to circ or not, do your research and make your own decision and you should hold your head high as being outstanding parents that are doing what is best for your son. ]]> Fri, 17 Dec 2010 20:42:01 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1222897&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1222897 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1222859&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1222859 Author: LittleBug
Subject: 37133
Posted: 17 December 2010 at 7:41pm

I haven't had our wee boy circumcised, but I would if it was medically indicated.

Just to add fuel to the debate I recently read some preliminary research about circumcision by someone who noticed a trend that circumcised children have a lower pain threshold. However that was part of a different study, it wasn't the topic itself, so needs much more research.]]> Fri, 17 Dec 2010 19:41:47 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1222859&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1222859 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1222847&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1222847 Author: Redbedrock
Subject: 37133
Posted: 17 December 2010 at 7:31pm

Hopes wrote: Redbedrock wrote: Adding my two pennies here. circumcision preventing HIV transmission as stated in a very early post Please read here HIV and circumcision Kinda stops that myth, hoping no one relies on that one So my basic point - the page you linked to is great to read to get a point of view, add to your knowledge about the subject, and possibly make you question some things some people take as fact. But if you're going to base a decision re circumcision soley on an internet page with a funny green background, you haven't actually done any research as such.

sorry but my main popint here was in terms of HIV education, the only away to avaoid HIV transmission is to avoid infected peoples blood and secretions, not by being circumcised, my point of relying on circumcision as an HIV preverner was the myth I referred to. I think circumcision is up to indeividuals to carry that deceision with them. As a previous HIV educator felt I had the research there]]> Fri, 17 Dec 2010 19:31:49 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1222847&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1222847 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1222816&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1222816 Author: LJsmum
Subject: 37133
Posted: 17 December 2010 at 7:01pm

ahhh the circumcision debate has surfaced again!
Alway's comes up every 6 or so months.
Must say who ever said that it's abuse or harm are you crazy!!!
It is not abuse.It is a procedure that is needed in some males.

No one has died from it in NZ.
really some people just like to scare others.!!!

Do the research and make the decision on your values and morals and not someones opinion or someone trying to scare you.

Come on people this is only one of the many many many decisions we favce as parents. You can only do what you think is right. Don't judge! ]]> Fri, 17 Dec 2010 19:01:54 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1222816&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1222816 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1222804&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1222804 Author: Hopes
Subject: 37133
Posted: 17 December 2010 at 6:42pm

Redbedrock wrote: Adding my two pennies here. circumcision preventing HIV transmission as stated in a very early post Please read here HIV and circumcision Kinda stops that myth, hoping no one relies on that one

I'm not too interested in adding to the main debate, because it's gone beyond discussing pros and cons and got into dead horses and flogging. But felt I should pop in to defend my post, as I was the one who bought up the HIV thing.

Umm... no, this does not 'stop that myth'. It's a website expressing some concerns about the research that a particular point of view is based on. It might be worth taking into consideration when researching the topic, and you might end up agreeing with it, but that's it.

Personally, I think the page you linked to has some very good points, and some pretty shoddy ones. I agree with some and cringe at others. When you look deeply into any subject that's been researched, you'll find all sorts of arguments about the validity of conclusions people have reached through their research. It's because no study is ever perfect, and people will always question the results (which is good and leads to further research).

So my basic point - the page you linked to is great to read to get a point of view, add to your knowledge about the subject, and possibly make you question some things some people take as fact. But if you're going to base a decision re circumcision soley on an internet page with a funny green background, you haven't actually done any research as such.]]> Fri, 17 Dec 2010 18:42:30 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37133&PID=1222804&title=circumcision-pros-and-cond#1222804