OHbaby! Forums : to antenatal class or not https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/ Copyright (c) 2006-2013 Web Wiz Forums - All Rights Reserved. Thu, 09 Apr 2026 06:27:44 +0000 Fri, 15 Feb 2008 14:36:10 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 12.05 360 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=14421 <![CDATA[OHbaby! Forums]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_images/web_wiz_forums.png https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/ <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : I should be good I have seen my...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=303202&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#303202 Author: Henna79
Subject: 14421
Posted: 15 February 2008 at 2:36pm

I should be good I have seen my mother give birth (to number 9) ]]> Fri, 15 Feb 2008 14:36:10 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=303202&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#303202 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : our one was only 7 mins...so wasnt...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=303131&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#303131 Author: ElfsMum
Subject: 14421
Posted: 15 February 2008 at 1:24pm

our one was only 7 mins...so wasnt too bad... i think the women were more freaked out than the men! ]]> Fri, 15 Feb 2008 13:24:55 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=303131&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#303131 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : I think its good from the point...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=303119&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#303119 Author: CuriousG
Subject: 14421
Posted: 15 February 2008 at 1:11pm

I think its good from the point of view of reiterating what you have perhaps already read or know. But beware the birthing video - I freaked out at that!

]]> Fri, 15 Feb 2008 13:11:25 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=303119&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#303119 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : thanks heaps for your comments...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=303059&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#303059 Author: Henna79
Subject: 14421
Posted: 15 February 2008 at 11:22am

thanks heaps for your comments guys. sounds like it would be pretty useful for both me and father to be so am def thinking its a good idea. ]]> Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:22:56 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=303059&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#303059 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : I found that the antenatal course...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=301234&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#301234 Author: Mazzy
Subject: 14421
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 12:19pm

I found that the antenatal course we did was good just to get a coffee group of mums once all the babies were born. Our kids are all 16 months old now and many of us are pregnant again and we're still meeting every week or every second week.
The actual course was good in some ways, boring in others. You cover a lot of basic stuff but then there are always things that surprise you. I reckon it's 75% stuff you know and 25% new stuff - but the new stuff can be gold! And as others have said, good for your partner.
We did ours through the birth centre in Hamilton, it cost us $50 and I think we booked in around 15 weeks. I won't be doing another one for this next baby though. CPR would be great to learn in one of the classes! We had two or three nights where we did caring for baby after the birth (breast feeding, bathing, clothing etc.)]]> Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:19:41 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=301234&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#301234 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : we booked in at around 8 weeks...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=301104&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#301104 Author: lucky3rdtime
Subject: 14421
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 10:08am

we booked in at around 8 weeks just after we got our mw who advised us to book in early. We went to the parents centre and it was free. Some of it I found useful, but more than that I enjoyed being around other pregnant women who are at the same stage as me and could relate to how you were feeling and the things you go through. The parents centre we went to organise the first two coffee groups after your an classes are finished.

We also did a CPR course on ours. I found it good overall and I didn't know much about the phases and stages of labour etc, so that was all useful for me and I think DH got alot out of it, since the guys can sometimes feel a bit on the outer when it comes to pregnancy, it made him feel more involved.

I have also booked to go to baby and you, which is $30 for me as I am not a member of the parents centre.]]> Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:08:35 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=301104&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#301104 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : WE went and althgouh I felt I...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=301068&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#301068 Author: Bel
Subject: 14421
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 9:25am

WE went and althgouh I felt I didn't learn much stuff, I did find the baby stuff really interesting - bathing/changing etc. DH actually learnt loads and found it quite interesting. Defintely worth the effort - though I am not so sure I would have been pleased if we had had to pay...]]> Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:25:57 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=301068&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#301068 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : I booked ours before christmas,...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=301043&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#301043 Author: Shezamumof3
Subject: 14421
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 8:54am

I booked ours before christmas, they fill up fast Im excited about them, it will be so good for DF ]]> Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:54:46 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=301043&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#301043 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : i did one thru the hosp with my...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=301021&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#301021 Author: Bizzy
Subject: 14421
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 8:23am

i did one thru the hosp with my first and i think it is a good thing to do so you can meet other mums in the same situation as you. You quite often hear of coffee groups that are formed from those first antenatal classes too - ours never got to that stage tho - and i suppose it can depend on the people who attend. i think too it is a good way to involve the father of the child too. ]]> Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:23:16 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=301021&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#301021 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : We went to ours, both me & DH,...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=301002&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#301002 Author: yummymummy
Subject: 14421
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 7:50am

We went to ours, both me & DH, and really enjoyed it. It was one of the few things DH and I could do together and we found it both informative & fun. That said, we only did a short one at Birthcare - not sure if we would have enjoyed one that lasted heaps longer]]> Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:50:12 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=301002&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#301002 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : We did ours through the hospital...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300724&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300724 Author: Mum2ET
Subject: 14421
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 7:48pm

We did ours through the hospital and I would definitely recommend it- particulary for your partner. I also attended a postnatel course at the hospital when Ella was around 5-6 weeks old for 4 weeks and I found that really useful and worthwhile.

]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:48:34 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300724&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300724 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : I did mine through Mama maternity...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300699&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300699 Author: miss
Subject: 14421
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 7:12pm

I did mine through Mama maternity (free) and it was great. i don't think there was much that I didn't know already as I read and research everything I want to know, but it was great for DH and we have a great coffee group from it.

I wouldn't pay for a course unless I knew nothing, had no books and no way to find things out, but that's just me.]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:12:44 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300699&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300699 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : I am in Hamilton and booked at...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300679&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300679 Author: aussiegirl
Subject: 14421
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 6:36pm

I am in Hamilton and booked at 14 weeks ]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:36:15 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300679&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300679 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : Recommend it, great for the guys...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300667&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300667 Author: Peanut
Subject: 14421
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 6:15pm

Recommend it, great for the guys more than anyone. We did the hosp one and have got a coffee group out of it. Am in chch and you have to book in basically within the first 10 weeks.]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:15:33 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300667&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300667 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : we got one of the last places...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300600&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300600 Author: ElfsMum
Subject: 14421
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 4:41pm

we got one of the last places at 6/7 weeks..maybe cause we were due feb and had to go to the xmas class? yeah even the basics like what to do with a newborn:) would have been helpful! ]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:41:49 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300600&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300600 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : I booked in about 9 wks and I...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300599&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300599 Author: Freesia
Subject: 14421
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 4:40pm

I booked in about 9 wks and I can't believe everyones Parent Centre ones were free. We had to pay $205 which included membership, AN course and the Baby & You course!

If it were free I'd definitely say do it. For what we had to pay and what we learnt (further from what we already knew ourselves) it wasn't worth it for us.]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:40:47 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300599&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300599 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : Where do you find parent centres?...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300597&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300597 Author: FionaO
Subject: 14421
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 4:39pm

Where do you find parent centres?

]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:39:38 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300597&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300597 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : We went, I don&#039;t think they...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300590&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300590 Author: cuppatea
Subject: 14421
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 4:36pm

We went, I don't think they covered anything that I hadn't read but it well and trully opened DH's eyes. I found it impossible to get him to read anything he just kept saying that I could tell him what was going on...erm not when I'm in labour!!!! so from that point of view it was good. I won't be going with my 2nd cos I don't think it would be worth our time having been through it for real already.
They did cover a bit of stuff for when baby comes at our one, like how to breastfeed, how to bath and even how to make a bed. Would have been handy to have had some time spent on ways to settle and common baby complaints like what to do with colic etc though. I booked around the 20 weeks mark.]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:36:45 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300590&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300590 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : we had to book around 6-7 weeks...crazy...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300581&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300581 Author: ElfsMum
Subject: 14421
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 4:27pm

we had to book around 6-7 weeks...crazy old chch! ]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:27:53 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300581&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300581 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : I found I didn&#039;t learn a...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300572&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300572 Author: EmDee
Subject: 14421
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 4:16pm

I found I didn't learn a lot more than I had already found out for myself (reading books, magazines, OhBaby! etc), but would definitely recommend attending one.

I found my DH really benefitted - he's not much of a reader and I'm sure half of what I told him went in one ear and out the other! Plus it was great to have that support of other first times mums after the birth, they understood what you were going through and feeling - like when I looked at my bloated feet and burst into tears!!!

From memory I booked the class around the 20 week mark and started attending at around 28 weeks.]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:16:40 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300572&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300572 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : I booked mine at about 17 or 18...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300563&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300563 Author: josephnia
Subject: 14421
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 4:07pm

I booked mine at about 17 or 18 weeks.]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:07:12 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300563&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300563 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : Just wondering when did you book...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300547&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300547 Author: first
Subject: 14421
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 3:53pm

Just wondering when did you book your courses?]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:53:02 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300547&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300547 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : We went to the Parents Centre...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300546&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300546 Author: Tiff
Subject: 14421
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 3:51pm

We went to the Parents Centre ones (which were free) and I found them good. I probably had read a lot of the info before but it was still interesting. And it was great DH going he definately got more out of it than me so it was well worth it just for that IMO. Plus they are organising a couple of coffe group mornings for us which is great also.]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:51:30 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300546&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300546 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : Me and DF are going to them, Id...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300531&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300531 Author: Shezamumof3
Subject: 14421
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 3:40pm

Me and DF are going to them, Id rather go and learn some stuff than not go and wonder what i could have learnt. They are free, so I dont see why not Plus, I think it will be good for my DF to hear all that stuff from a real person rather than reading a book, it will make him listen and learn better

Edited by Sheza]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:40:11 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300531&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300531 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : definitly go! most of it is common...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300492&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300492 Author: CindyD
Subject: 14421
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 3:04pm

definitly go! most of it is common sense but you'll still learn heaps of interesting stuff too, and its good being able to talk baby stuff with other mums to be. ]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:04:04 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300492&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300492 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : I too asked where was the info...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300482&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300482 Author: peachy
Subject: 14421
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 2:56pm

I too asked where was the info about looking after the baby! There response which I thought was a very good call was, when you are pregnant you can't actually see past going through labour and birth, so teaching you about looking after baby would go in one ear and out the other. I think they were correct in saying that as all I was worried about was getting the baby out first of all!!

The other courses that Parents Centre offeres which are included in your membership fee are Baby and You, Moving and Munching, CPR along with others and I have found these courses are absolutely fantastic and they teach you all about your baby and what to expect!!

and coffee groups rock ]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:56:43 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300482&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300482 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : I found them really interesting,...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300480&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300480 Author: Daizy
Subject: 14421
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 2:54pm

I found them really interesting, and although a lot of the stuff I already knew it was still quite fun meeting lots of other expecting mums. ]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:54:28 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300480&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300480 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : i did the parents center one and...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300474&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300474 Author: tashzmum
Subject: 14421
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 2:49pm

i did the parents center one and it was free. i too thought it would be a waste of time but i got heaps out of it. and then afterwards i went to the baby and you classes and learnt heaps there too. ]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:49:36 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300474&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300474 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : I went to the hospital ones with...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300464&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300464 Author: mummy_becks
Subject: 14421
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 2:35pm

I went to the hospital ones with my first and really didn't learn anything I didn't already know. Didn't bother with my second and won't bother again with my 3rd.

]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:35:10 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300464&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300464 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : yeha i asked about that..she said...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300462&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300462 Author: ElfsMum
Subject: 14421
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 2:34pm

yeha i asked about that..she said it was an antenatal class..implying before baby is born..I'm like yeah but they will all be born eventually then what...seems to be a sink or swim attitude..which sucks really:( ]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:34:05 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300462&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300462 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : I went to the Parents Centre one...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300454&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300454 Author: Freesia
Subject: 14421
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 2:21pm

I went to the Parents Centre one and found the actual course mostly a waste of time. We have formed quite a neat coffee group out of it but that's about it. If you have done lots of reading about labour and pain relief etc then you probably wont get a whole lot out of it. I really wished they'd covered more stuff about how to look after the baby once you had it ]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:21:48 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300454&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300454 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : If you have a local Parents Centre,...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300432&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300432 Author: peachy
Subject: 14421
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 2:07pm

If you have a local Parents Centre, I totally recommed there a/n courses! You do have to pay I think it was $180, but well worth it and you get coffee group out of it and some great new friends with babies the same age as yours!

Well well worth it IMO!]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:07:33 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300432&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300432 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : i thought it would be a waste..but...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300424&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300424 Author: ElfsMum
Subject: 14421
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 2:04pm

i thought it would be a waste..but i actually found it really useful....lots of people say you can get the same from books..but i liked that Dh could go too and he really found it useful..and he was really good during the labour and hospital stay beforehand cause he knew the basics.. i think it's a personal decision but for me i think it was worth going..and it was free so that helped:) ]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:04:45 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300424&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300424 <![CDATA[to antenatal class or not : my MW came today and we spoke...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300418&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300418 Author: Henna79
Subject: 14421
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 1:59pm

my MW came today and we spoke about antenatal classes I am sort of keen to go cause this is my first time through this btu someone told me its a total waste of time. Any thoughts would be much appreciated ]]> Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:59:10 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14421&PID=300418&title=to-antenatal-class-or-not#300418